Clear evidence of climate change as permafrost under 1920s town, never melted before, now melts.

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Rybold, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    This is clear evidence of global warming. Just because someone films a video of an ice chunk falling off of an ice shelf, or a stream of meltwater under a glacier, does not mean the earth is warming. The ice in the North and South Poles form and melt every year, as each respective hemisphere transitions from summer to winter and winter to summer. A video is not evidence. (yes, satellite images comparing ice formations in the 1960s to the 1980s to the 2000s is evidence) But, when a town, built on permafrost in the early 1900s and has been there up until now with no problems begins experiencing melting of the permafrost, mud, and landslides beneath the town, this is clear evidence of climate change.

    Climate change threatens life in Shishmaref, Alaska - CNN.com
     
    #1 Rybold, Dec 6, 2009
  2. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    True - climate is changing - always does. Clear evidence of this is "Greenland" which during the time of the Vikings was actually quite "green" as compared to today.

    So there is lots of evidence of climate change (both colder and warmer) in various parts of the world. This alone does not support or refute anthropogenic global warming.
     
    #2 TimBikes, Dec 7, 2009
  3. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Bingo. You win. I will remain open to the possibility of "regional shifts," such as El Nino, La Nina, hurricanes, desert formations and droughts, and so forth. However, it could still be global warming. We can't be sure unless we can confirm that the entire globe (from dozens of points around the globe) is experiencing a synchronous shift.

    Post-thought: More appropriately, we must measure factors that are distributed across the entire globe; such as sea level and atmosphere.
     
    #3 Rybold, Dec 8, 2009
  4. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    got any references to this?

    as a kid, the story i heard was that the Vikings named both Iceland and Greenland such opposite names because they did not want Iceland overpopulated because it was such a wonderful place as opposed to Greenland that was the opposite. every thing i have seen basically says Greenland has always been a frozen place for ALL of recorded time for us.

    we have to go back tens of thousands of years for any major change here.

    also, what does Greenland have to do with Alaska anyway? why is the chief argument of many naysayers to bring up and entirely different place, circumstance and time?
     
    #4 DaveinOlyWA, Dec 8, 2009
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  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    It is true that Greenland was once warmer and supported some cultivation along the west coast. However, the name "Greenland" is attributed to Eric the Red who was exiled from Iceland for murder. Supposedly he hoped the pleasant sounding name would attract settlers.

    Tom
     
    #5 qbee42, Dec 8, 2009
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Only as far back as the Middle Ages. Greenland took a pretty big climate hit during the Little Ice Age. Even so, we are mostly talking about coastline, which is very susceptible to variations in ocean currents.

    Tom
     
    #6 qbee42, Dec 8, 2009
  7. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Actually, the climate metric climatologist Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. proposes is "ocean heat content". Unfortunately, we have only in the past few years developed the technology (ARGO floats) that can help measure this, so we have very little data to work with at present.
     
    #7 TimBikes, Dec 8, 2009
  8. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    #8 Fibb222, Dec 8, 2009
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