Hypothetically, if man were able master the climate...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by burritos, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    and figured precisely to how to manage the it (via carbon sequestration, limitation, and production) for the benefit of us and the current species on earth, would that be a good thing? It probably would be good for man, but would it be good for earth and it's species(or more likely, future species) if the earth never had another ice age or another geologically hot era?
     
  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Depends on what each particular person feels is important. If all that person cares about is humanity then they may feel that being able to control the climate is a good thing. I don't feel that way at all though. the Earth works most of its amazing wonders after catastrophe and severe climate change. It spices things up and new species fill niches left vacant by older species that didn't make it. :D

    I was never a big fan of assuming we could manage anything natural let alone do it well. Now I find myself in a position that I do have to try and manage an ecosystem (grasslands) due to an invasion of exotic species brought over by man from other countries. Grrrr
     
  3. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Carbon caused climate change could be the equivalent of the proverbial meteor strike. Does it matter that it's man made or not? I say let spicey chips fall where they may and let hopenhagen be damned.
     
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    While I don't believe we will ever be able to 'Master' climate, we definately can influence it.
    We can also help deserts expand (China has been doing this for many years).
    It is far easier to influence something than totally control it.
    As for 'Should' we influence it if we can: I would say we should influence the climate/ecosphere for the benifit of mankind.
    I don't know why, but some people seem to be concerned about their fellow man while others not so much. If I can improve the living conditions of people across the world, or in many years in the future, I would prefer to.
    I see a difference between a random asteroid striking the earth and actually pulling the trigger ourselves.
     
  5. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Scientists project that climate change is going to improve the weather and thus living conditions for Canada and Russia, the 2 largest countries area wise. It's going to suck for everyone else, but they'll just have to move or die or learn to live in the desert.
     
  6. radioprius1

    radioprius1 Climate Conspirisist

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    That sounds like settled science! :)
     
  7. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    I would suggest it would be potentially good to have the capability, but I'm almost afraid of what we might do with it. Who would be in charge? To some degree it would matter how fine your control is. If you can influence one continent at a time the weather becomes a weapon.

    It would be unquestionably good if we were able to step in behind whatever it is that has regulated the climate up to now, and act as a backup for it during times of extreme stress. If we could duck or soften a Cretaceous type extinction event I would hold that to be unquestionably good for the living Earth.

    I should perhaps mention, I consider the climate as being basically a heat engine(1) that redistributes heat away from the equator. If you can add or reduce heat purposefully(2) then you ought to be able to influence it. I expect us to get that capability. The problems would fall into modeling it, so you aren't just saying "lets push this Big Red Button and see what happen" and the question of responsibility. Right now we humans are roughly optimized for the existing climate everywhere. If you change anything, someone will suffer. Do you, who has the big red button, have any responsibilities towards those who do not?

    (1) reference "Hadley Cells"
    (2) reference "Solar Power Satellite"
     
  8. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    It's much more likely that we would influence the climate locally (and maybe regionally) than globally. In fact, to a certain extent we already do - though not necessarily intentionally. To the extent this helps man, I think it is overall a good thing, though we have to always bear in mind the impact on the rest of the environment / living things.

    Globally managing the climate though - it will never happen.
     
  9. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Agreed!
     
  10. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    TimBikes [​IMG]

    Globally managing the climate though - it will never happen.


    To manage it intelligently & beneficently would be a huge job, but will this stop people from trying things and seeing what happen? As an example, any of the big players in WWII would not have hesitated to screw with the weather big time if they wanted something, and thought they could do it. Side effects were acceptable.
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Regulations may stop people from trying but I'm sure plenty of people will or would like to try. :)

    Doing it correctly would be a monumental task, especially when we don't even know what correctly is. lol
     
  12. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Isn't curbing carbon emissions a form of climate management?
     
  13. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    That is a far cry from climate mastery like your thread title suggested. I wouldn't call it management either. It is more of a way to reduce any additional anthropogenic inputs to the system.
     
  14. radioprius1

    radioprius1 Climate Conspirisist

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    Totally agree.
     
  15. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    We might not be able to master it, but we might be able to manage how much of the solar energy from the sun is retained within our atmospheric boundaries. Secondly, with time we may also be able to learn and understand the feedback mechanisms such that we could make educated guesses on how they make affect climate when the carbon variable is changed. I personally don't think this should be man's goal, but could happen.
     
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    We could start with undoing what we've already done. We could replant the forests, restore habitat, and gain some respect for nature.
     
  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I'm so happy that is what I get to do for a living. :)
     
  18. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    What if that's not what nature wants and what we're living in is a transitional climate to a more long enduring ice age or hot climate? Then what we're currently trying to preserve is some idyllic climate that is optimal for humans, which maybe considered selfish.

    Maybe mother earth's feedback loop to eliminate dominant even cancerous species is to let them invade, upset the climate balance, and kill the invaders off, sort of like our having fevers.
     
  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Nature didn't make the changes, humans did.

    By resetting the stage you allow for a more natural process of evolution to take place. In the mean time we get to reap the benefits of ecosystem services from a non-degraded system.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Improved climate in Russia and Canada primarily means higher temperatures. This can increase agricultural productivity if water is not limiting. An obvious downside is that soils of those countries contain very large amounts of organic carbon, and this is also where the temperature sensitivity of soil respiration is the highest. The positive feedback has been a worry for quite a while: warmer -> more CO2 released from soils -> more warmer etc.

    It would be difficult to claim pure benefit from that situation. Meanwhile the outlook for agricultural productivity in the near-equator countries does not appear to be so bright, largely because of anticipated moisture limitations. The possiblility for a collapse of the Amazonian forest is a distinctly minority view. I also hope that it is incorrect.

    On climate mastery, the closest we can probably ocme in the near and medium term is to stimulate terrestial carbon uptake, by several means that are well understood. That, and REDD. Substantial reductions in fossil fuel emission seem more distant as they are so closely linked with money.