More, whatever. Not the same, yes. Strengths & Weaknesses will be revealed by real-world data. Components differences make it easy to see how results will vary. MILD = tiny motor which contributes little more than auto-stop/start ASSIST = 1 small motor with limited abilities FULL = 2 motor, with at least 1 very large, offering a wide range of electric opportunities .
Hyundai Blue Drive (HBD) is like Honda's IMA except there is a clutch to disconnect MG from the ICE. This allows EV mode with ICE disconnected. Since this MG is a traction motor, let's call it MG2 (in Prius term). MG2 does not restart the ICE by engaging the clutch. ICE has it's own dedicated integrated starter/generator (ISG). ISG sound like a very small MG1 that would start the ICE and generate tiny amount of power. All the power goes through 6-speed automatic transmission unlike mechanical CVT in Honda IMA. HBD is mechanically more complex than HSD because it uses three planetary gearsets (in automatic transmission) to multiply MG2 torque (ICE torque as well when it is active). HSD use one set to multiply MG2 torque in Gen3 Prius (none in Gen2). HBD has a clutch to connect ICE and MG2. I imagine ISG is permanently connected to ICE like in IMA. HSD has one planetary gearset connecting ICE, MG1 and MG2. A few questions come to mind... How smooth will the ICE shutdown/restart will be? When changing gears and while the clutch is engaged or disengaged: - How much shift-shock the driver will feel? - How long will the delay be? How clean (emission-wise) is Hyundai's Atkinson cycle ICE?
If the advantages are so much, why does the TCH have the lowest mpg out of any hybrid car? you are right real world will tell and it's told the truth on the TCH.
2006 is how many years ago? Let's see what the next model offers. As for advantages, ask yourself how long the electric motor can be used. Hadn't thought of that one, eh? FULL hybrids provide active liquid cooling, so they can sustain high-power electric propulsion for a very long time. That's why plug-in upgrades have only needed to focus on the battery-pack. ASSIST hybrids (to date) have relied upon passive air cooling. That means all you get is just a short amount of use from the motor. .
Your right it's not 2006, why is toyota still using 2006 tech? The camry has seen a many refreshes since then, the battery arrangement was changed in 2009 to allow a trunk pass through so the HSD could have been updated then. what type of cooling does hyundai use? They have not stated. it clearly doesn't matter as long as the heat dissipates. obviously heat is not an issue when the HBD can operate at 62mph solely under electricity (which leads me to believe it probably is liquid cooled) which the liquid cooled HSD cannot. Hyundai is making a "hybrid" of Assist and full hybrid. Good luck to them.
Just because it can reach 62 MPH does mean it can sustain it for long. We know for a fact that the plug-in Prius offers 62.1 MPH (100 km/h). Saying it cannot is just plain wrong. .
Not sure- weight? Even the new 2011 has an EPA of 31/35. Does anyone know how well the EPA estimates match with reality for the TCH for us careful drivers? I know there is no match with a Gen II and EPA estimates. As for HSD versus Hybrid Blue Drive, for me it's going to be HSD. First, I'm satisfied that HSD works after 14 years and a couple million vehicles. Hyundai makes good cars, but this appears to be a new and unique system. Maybe in a few years... and I like the CVT. I'm not sure about replacing a battery and rebuilding the auto transmission down the road. Of course, I also like the fact that the Camry and Altima Hybrids are made by American workers, versus the Fusion/Milan Hybrids which are made by Mexican workers.
Close. Mild and Assist are basically the same thing. GM did sell its hybrids that had such a small electric HP that some might argue they are not hybrids at all. Honda's IMA has been called both mild and assist. Full hybrids do not need to have two motors. They only need to be able to move the car fully under electric power. A full hybrid does not need to be a series/parallel like the Prius. A series only hybrid (Chevy Volt) or a parallel only hybrid (Hyundai Sonata) are both full hybrids. What makes the Hyundai Sonata a full hybrid and the Honda IMA not is the size of its electric motor. The Hyundai can go from a dead stop to 40+ mph (SLOWLY) on full electric if the state of charge is good and the gas is very slowly applied. The Honda IMA can not.
Using only part of the definition is being a victim of greenwashing. Certain people want to dilute the meaning. FULL hybrids aboslutely must have 2 motors, period. The reason is simple. Without that second motor, it lacks serial abilities... hence not being full. Being able to generate electricity and consume it at the same time is a key feature. FULL doesn't have a dependency on the battery-pack, like the ASSIST. That translates to better overall performance & efficiency... as we've seen demonstrated during times of high demand like mountain climbing, stop & slow traffic, and heavy A/C use. .
I agree with John that a FULL hybrid should have two MGs. One needs to act as generator while another as a motor. This comes down to the spec of HBD's ISG. How powerful is the integrated starter/generator? Is it 10-15kW like IMA? How powerful does it has to be for us to classify as a FULL hybrid?
WRONG! Using Toyota's definition of full hybrid is being a victim of marketing. A full hybrid can move from standstill on gas, electric or both. IMA can not attain any real speed on just electric. There is no set definition of full hybrid, it is not a specific as something like series hybrid which the words alone give it meaning. Government definition: Full Hybrid: Overview Another point of view: Definition of Full Hybrid - What is a Full Hybrid Even more variations: Hybrid Center :: How Hybrid Cars work :: under the hood None of these definitions require two motors or power split device. Hyundai calls their new hybrid a full hybrid.
The word "FULL" was used to indicate the entire operation range of conditions were covered. Attempts to change a definition many years after it has been established is marketing spin. Look up the origins of the term. They are not the same. .
That is not what you said. You said two motors. And that is not part of the origins of the term nor the commonly accepted definition. Two motors has nothing to do with the word full. Assigning full hybrid to just Toyota's way of doing things IS MARKETING SPIN.
Maybe we should just agree that the current hybrid terminology is confusing to the public as well as enthusiasts. Like "engine" versus "motor." I grew up calling my car's engine the motor. I have to stop and think (not always easy these days). Time will tell if Hyundai's hybrid system works well in real life. I'm going to withhold judgment for now. It helps that I'm not looking for a new car right now.
It's always good to hear about the hybrid market expanding. I'm curious about the battery technology used in the Hyundai. Is it a real improvement to the current state of the market ?
well what i have read is that this sonata wil get a litium bases battery pack. and will be a full hybrid just like the prius. i have seen these prototype Hybride drive train on the 2009 NAIAS... a dutch artikel. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoweek.nl%2Fautonieuws%2F13940%2FHyundai-Sonata-Hybride-slaat-nikkel-hydride-over&sl=nl&tl=en but ofcourse this can be just a CVT or 6 speed automatic.whit elec assist. and not a full hybrid.
The battery has a better power density. Meaning more power in a pack the same size (campared to NiMH). So hyundai made the pack smaller and lighter (by more than 100 lbs compared to other hybrids).
Those numbers are correct, the Sonata pack is almost 50% lighter then the Fusions. The new Sonata gets a bigger advantage from designing the engine area around JUST 4cyl engines. Most of the other cars in this class can take a larger V6 as well. According to Hyundai this amounts to a pretty large weight savings, 263lbs vs the Fusion. The interior space of the Hyundai is bigger then the Camry and the Fusion so they did not get it by shrinking the car.
