More bad news: Claim that Toyota fails to disclose information under court order

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by kgall, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    More bad news for Toyota:

    AP IMPACT: In Toyota cases, evasion becomes tactic (AP)

    By CURT ANDERSON and DANNY ROBBINS, Associated Press Writers Curt Anderson And Danny Robbins, Associated Press Writers – Sun Apr 11, 2:38 pm ET
    "MIAMI – Toyota has routinely engaged in questionable, evasive and deceptive legal tactics when sued, frequently claiming it does not have information it is required to turn over and sometimes even ignoring court orders to produce key documents, an Associated Press investigation shows.
    In a review of lawsuits filed around the country involving a wide range of complaints — not just the sudden acceleration problems that have led to millions of Toyotas being recalled — the automaker has hidden the existence of tests that would be harmful to its legal position and claimed key material was difficult to get at its headquarters in Japan. It has withheld potentially damaging documents and refused to release data stored electronically in its vehicles."


    The article goes through a number of cases in which (it says) Toyota disobeyed court orders to disclose information.
    Assuming the claims here are true, they are quite troubling.
     
    #1 kgall, Apr 11, 2010
  2. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    If you read between the lines, there is really nothing new here. The reporters reviewed the lawsuits filed by the usual suspects at ATAC and Biller. They read the Towns letter, which was rebutted by Congressman Issa but whose response was not mentioned. They talked with a product liability lawyer who said this was SOP in these cases. Then they concluded that the foreigners were using the fact that they were foreigners to hide from our bloodsucking lawyers and media.

    Okay, I added the part about lawyers and media- they called it "justice."

    Most of the early Yahoo! comments were very non-supportive of the
    AP investigation. Several began with comments about tired they were of hearing about this crap, and that they were beginning to think some of this was being made up to protect American car makers. Yeah I got in my rant about the lawyers and media. Of course, Yahoo! promptly cut off and hid all comments.
     
    #2 robbyr2, Apr 11, 2010
  3. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    robbyr2,

    If Toyota disobeyed court orders to disclose information in a case or a bunch of cases, that's a problem for the company, its officials, its lawyers or all three. The claims of pieces of information not turned over are quite specific. The denials are not.

    For those of us who like our Prius or other Toyota cars, here's what's frustrating:
    This hiding of information has very little to do with whether today's Toyota cars are safe. Moreover, the statistics that folks like Bob Wilson have worked with suggest that Prius, for example, is quite safe--about half the fatalities per car sold in the US compared to the average model over the past several years.
    But it does really hurt Toyota's credibility, even today--if it has a history of hiding information, even under court order, why should the public believe the claims that it has revealed the information that it has on things like the gas pedal or brake problem?

    I for example believe that it has fixed the brake problem because I was able to reproduce it when my car was new, and the recall fixed the problem.
    But if I didn't have that evidence, would I believe that the problem is fixed just because Toyota now says it is? This article makes it less likely that I would.
     
    #3 kgall, Apr 11, 2010
  4. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    My problem with the article was that it sounded like something new. Not one new shred of evidence, not one new claim was made that hasn't been made before by the plaintiffs' attorneys, Mr. Biller, or Congressman Towns. The "evidence" these reporters turned up are from the plaintiffs' lawsuits.

    Yes, there are people who believe lawyers always tell the truth, even though they are supposed to present their clients' cases even if they don't believe them. Mr. Biller had nothing to do with SUA cases while at Toyota. If he had any documents regarding SUA they would have to have been stolen, and so far he hasn't been able to convince a judge that they contain sufficient evidence of illegal activity to have them released. And Congressman Towns made his allegations about Toyota within days of receiving 70,000 pages of records. Congressman Issa and his staff read the same records, and he said Towns was full of it.

    My other issue is that just last week AP changed their story. Up until then, they took the plaintiffs' word that SUA was caused by electronics and that the pedal recall was a smokescreen. Last week the pedals were killing people. Now the problem is once again electronics.

    I don't necessarily think all of Toyota's attorneys or managers are angels. We know one attorney who probably did withhold information in the rollover accident but he's supposed to have come to Jesus. Every company has angels and demons. The question is corporate culture. Was this corporate policy? The Japanese don't necessarily look at things the way Americans do. In their view, if you have a problem, you fix it. You punish the responsible parties as quietly as possible to save them embarrassment. We want to know who did what- the fix can wait until we have punished the guilty in the most embarrassing way possible. Frankly, most Japanese companies find that pretty dumb. And I think they're probably right.
     
    #4 robbyr2, Apr 11, 2010
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Toyota has consistently put out misleading statements. They have been pointed out by Congress and the NHTSA. Even when toyota later reports the truth when caught, its PAC, lawyers, and fanboys repeat the misleading statements as if they have not been caught in documents.

    Issa has consistently been an apologist for Toyota. He profited greatly from them, then his staffer leaked misinformation about the Sikes investigation, that later needed to be corrected. Issa's statements do not over rule the facts.

    If you think toyota has not put forth misleading statements, you missed their apologies when caught. IF you think they have consistently followed the law when it comes to documents, you just have not been paying any attention at all.



     
    #5 austingreen, Apr 11, 2010
  6. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    #6 cwerdna, Apr 11, 2010
  7. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    I wish we could get a story on Yahoo that was titled "Investigation: AP engages in deceptive journalistic tactics".
     
    #7 robbyr2, Apr 11, 2010
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was able to post a comment along with my favorite "small shot" image. Go back, I think comments are open and I think they have exceeded 500. Interesting, the anti-Toyota folks are pretty . . . unhappy. So I of course posted about having two Prius and getting 52 MPG. <grins>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Apr 11, 2010
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