For those that are bent on global warming denial, (and prone to right wing politics) if you don't think that the current flooding situation in Pakistan is a harbinger of things to come, both in climate change, politcal upheaval etc, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale! The really scary part is the confluence of climate change, social disaster, amidst the global social/religious/political strive that is Pakistan/Afghanistan. Radicalism thrives in times of disaster, and this is no different. What does make this different to some extent, is that part of the cause of this disaster is long term man made. What is happening in that part of the world is very much in line with what climate scientists have predicted in the last decade(s). If you don't think this is all a "tax" on our reliance on fossil fuel, and our reluctance to legitimately tax ourselves for solutions, then you are blind. Icarus
Oh there is something coming alright... it is fully described in the last book of the Bible. Hang in there Icky.
Let's see, am I going to base the future of humanity on science or biblical prophesy??? Tough choice,,,not!
Sorry to interrupt the prophecy/science debate, and I may regret getting into this thread, but here goes. Actually disasters usually bring out some of our better behaviors, as people give to charities and do what they can to help out. It's the day-in-day-out grind of poverty or famine that gives fertile ground to radicalism. And a disaster that overwhelms the victim's ability to get back on their feet is a good way to get into povert/famine, but if we step up to the plate and help them (like the muslim world has been doing, with supposedly $1 billion USD in donations lined up), then we can avoid the radicalism part and get some good PR in the process.
You are indeed right, and thanks by the way for bringing us back tot he topic! While there is a great history of people rising to the occasion, it can also be demonstrated that "our enemies" (Radical islamists?) are also able to rise to the occasion, and have a potentially profound impact on the outcome. With our questionable presence in both Pakistan and Afghanistan leading to huge PR blunders due to "collateral damage" it is very easy for the radicals to inject themselves more effectively. My point however, is that these kind of events instead of being "rare" or "record" events, are in reality going to become more common place, and the worlds ability (and willingness) to help such poor people is going to be exhausted, leaving opportunities for "our enemies" to exploit for their ends.
No merely pointing out to folks with small minds that the world is full of complications and nuance. Something certain people don't get,,, at all!
Thanks for the clarification. So you would say Icky would not bet the future of mankind on science. Awesome.
The public has trouble realizing that weather and climate are different. Weather events are not climate change. But I agree that human actions DO matter. Katrina for example was a minor hurricane that should have found wetlands in New Orleans, but instead it found a city built below sea level. People tried to call it climate change and a harbinger of things to come, yet there have been few big hurricanes since Katrina (ooops to the doomsdayers). Pakistan has tens of millions of people more than it can sustainabilty support, and they are paying the price, and will continue to do so regardless of any changes in climate.
Personally, I think you take the potential effects of climate change, both on the climate, and on the geopolitical/social climate too lightly, but that is a different conversation. I am not suggesting that this particular flooding event is demonstrably as a result to climate change as opposed to a "record weather" event. What I am saying, is that the climate models have suggested that these kind of "record weather events" are going to become more commonplace throughout the world, and indeed in South Asia, one result is likely to be more "record weather event floods!" My point in starting the thread was to point out the fragile balance of geopolitics/religion/social and economic interests that exist in the region, and how a series of these events may have consequences far beyond the actual flood events. If the naysayers wish to ignore these kind of issues and pray to god and hope for the rapture or whatever, feel free, but be prepared for a surprise!
In many ways, the problems have only begun. All those millions of people without food, water, or shelter...inadequate aid, water-borne disease, reports of corruption, Taliban activity...yes, the total impact is bigger than the flood itself, disastrous as it was.
