I have been considering the Hymotion Conversion for a while now. The other day I was at an Electric Vehicle event in Livonia Michigan. Hymotion was not represented, however Enginer was there. When I asked the Enginer representative about his competition, Hymotion, he started giving me non specific horror stories about Hymotion. He said that he thought that Hymotion may have gone out of business because of so many problems with the system. He said that they don't answer their phones or emails. He also mentioned U-Tube videos of Hymotion systems blowing up! I can't find them. Is any of this true?
I can't speak to Hymotion systems "blowing up", but everything you've said is just hilarous. It seems funny that Enginer would be the one throwing stones. Let's see, A123 systems still seems to be in business (AONE: Summary for A123 Systems, Inc.- Yahoo! Finance). From many accounts here (like http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...product-quality-april-2011-a.html#post1294825 and comments like http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...awing-customer-support-sales.html#post1245839), I get the impression that the Enginer system is hacky and unreliable, at best. I don't keep track of TheForce's status w/his Hymotion, but he did achieve 2502 Miles 299 MPG 1 tank of gas in a 2G Prius PHEV | PriusChat long ago. See http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...-vehicle-has-bigger-thank-than-you-think.html "First tank on Enginer PHEV without it breaking down 1,146.7 miles", in contrast. I personally don't care about PHEV kits myself. Hymotion is too expensive and Enginer seems to be too unreliable to be even worth the effort.
It is not funny that the Enginerconfused rep give you a bad rap to a properly "Engineered" piece of electronics with the name brand of Hymotion. If they only could pronounce their name right............:yell:
I should expect the Enginer product to improve over time. I have read plenty of evidence that a lot of product issues have been addressed. This would not have been possible if there was no communications in place that would enable this to happen. Don't give up on Enginer yet. It is still a cheaper product than Hymotion and maybe you will get more than what you pay for.
There have been some issues with the Hymotion battery. None blowing up or catching fire that I know about and I think we would have heard about it. Not many issues that I can find and the ones with problems were still under warranty so no problems getting it fixed. I have not had any major problems with mine. Its still going strong. Slightly less capacity but still going strong. Support was pretty good at first but the last time I tried to contact someone I did not get a reply. Might just be because I was asking some technical questions that they may not want to answer. I have actually heard more bad things about Enginer than Hymotion and I'm not saying that because I have a Hymotion battery either. I would say the past year Enginer has improved their battery quality since I have not really heard from anyone having issues.
The problem with Enginer is the not the battery. It's the battery management system and the converter. The BMS mismanage the battery and cause it to fail prematurely. Enginer utilizes bottom balancing. When a cell is low, it'll pull the charge from high cell to charge the low cell. In theory it works well. But in practice, the BMS would keep charge certain cells and throw it off balance sometimes overcharging them or over draining them. The converter would also fail during high output session or during hot weather. The BMS can be replaced by PacificEV BMS or MiniBMS that utilize top balancing. The converter on the other hand has no aftermarket replacement. The charger can also be replaced with other LiFePo4 chargers. The only thing that really concerns me is the converter as there are no replacement for it. If it fails, you have to contact Enginer. When it fails, your kit will not work.
Beside all the problems that cproaudio addressed, mostly of the hardware complaints and issues are handled at closed doors in their "enginer user's website"; and one of the reasons why Dan21, the enginer crusader, is not showing around PC for a while......
I am worried that if my converter goes I will not be able to get a replacement from Enginer. My local installer in Australia Nilco2 quoted me AU$1940 for a new 5kw converter. I had previously paid AU$2000 for a brand new battery pack LHS and RHS from Nilco2 which was for a good price. Had I bought them from Enginer I would have paid US$900 x 2 = AU$1800 plus delivery. Nilco2 would only offer me a 6 month warranty. He sold me the battery pack as a private sale only which means that legally he does not have to offer any warranty at all. Obviously he has no confidence in the RFE battery pack!!
AUD is almost the same as USD.$1940 for a converter? WOW I guess a working converter is in hot demand. I remember Enginer selling the whole kit without battery for $995. That includes the enclosure, 5KW converter, 900W charger, BMS16D, 2 cooling fans, master switch, power wiring and anderson plugs.
IIIRC, the 5K converter was not available at the time, only the 3K one. And the only BMS available was the BP8. It doesn't look like they sell the no-batteries kit any more.
The only evidence of a PHEV system which blew up that I could find was a Hybridsplus installation. The following link makes good reading: http://www.evworld.com/library/prius_fire_forensics.pdf
I was aware about this catastrophic event but never had a chance to read the inspection report, very interesting.
So if I am reading this correctly, The issue is not unique to any PHEV supplier, but rather is an issue of correct assembly that can happen on any system if the correct attachments and tightening of cables is not done. In my case, I have MottCells. I could have a similar problem if did not use a lock washer or had a bolt bottom out in the cell or if I let insulation of other plastic get pinched in the connection. So the take away is to be sure that we are rigorous in our attention to detail. Thanks, Dan
Does Hymotion alter the Prius's ECU? to allow more EV driving or allow higher current from the kit? Hymotion has been known to achieve over 200mpg. Gen II without ECU mod, would code if the PHEV supply too much current. This is been done with Enginer kits with too much output. Since Hymotion can achieve better mileage than Enginer, does this mean that Hymotion supplies more electricity to the hybrid system?
Although I don't know the details, my understanding is that they spoof the CAN messages to/from the ECU so the system accepts the juice w/o coding.
So it jams in more current than the battery ECU requested, but makes sure when it complains that the hybrid ECU doesn't get to hear about it? hmm.
That's has been the principle of operation of the BMS+ from HybridInterfaces since day one and available to the public since many years now.
