His numbers sound similar to mine if he's using US gallons. Would be odd for somebody in the USA to use Imperial gallons. I get low 40's mpgUS in the city and low 50's on the highway.
This is true. Horses for courses. As I've said before on this forum, if you spend your time on the highway/motorway/autobahn then a diesel would be ideal. In fact I would suggest one over the Prius. If you spend a lot of time in heavy start stop traffic or in the town/city then a hybrid wins everytime. Had this very conversation with a customer of mine just the other day. We were talking about the Prius and she said her husband would love it as he's a closet nerd but as he spends his day driving up and down the motorways for his job he got a 3.0 litre diesel Audi A5 Coupe instead and is happy with the 40 UK mpg he gets from it. Sounds like an ideal choice.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ok diesel fan boy, read on..... The most efficient diesel car sold by VW in Europe (and the UK) gets 80 UK mpg's on the highway and is the manual version with 73 bhp. This mpg is based on the European fuel economy standards which don't compare with the US version. Volkswagen Polo Hatchback - 1.2 TDI Bluemotion 3d - Facts & Figures - Parkers The diesel Lupo is no longer sold and the version you refer to which did get 78 miles per US gallon (94 UK mpg) was a limited edition concept car with low weight magnesium doors! Want to see the actual Top 10 most economical cars sold in Europe? Check out the following link; Top ten most economical cars on sale - Autoblog UK Notice that the Prius and Auris HSD are in places 2 and 3. The number 1 spot goes to a Smart diesel! Can't see me heading for a day out with the wife and kids and luggage in that. Spot 4 goes to a Skoda Fabia Greenline. The latest version (June 2010 onwards) that complies with the stricter Euro 5 emissions has a 1.2 litre, 3 cylinder diesel with, wait for it, 73 bhp! Sure you could carry the same passengers as the Prius or Auris but you don't have an auto transmission nor will you get anywhere quickly. 0-60 time is 13.8 seconds. Skoda Fabia Estate - 1.2 TDI CR GreenLine II 5d - Facts & Figures - Parkers Oh, the 83 mpg quoted for this vehicle is highway, using UK gallons under the European testing proceedure. Emission control is the latest Euro 5 for diesel cars, but this still wouldn't allow it to be sold in the US. Happy to correct you.
The limited run Lupos were the ones that VW used to go around the world, I'm referring to the standard Lupo, which did have a semi-automatic trans that could shift itself. Also, there is no reference to UK mileage in these articles. VW Lupo: Rough road to fuel economy BEHIND THE WHEEL/Volkswagen Lupo - A Thrifty Spin in a 99 M.P.G. Car - NYTimes.com Again, my post said had, not has and I never said there was a USA version. What I was saying was that 75mpg (not UK mileage) was done by a diesel that could shift itself.
Appears that a Kia Rio diesel has superseded the Smart diesel as lowest fuel consumption car available in Europe (http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-by-fuel-economy.aspx?vid=28330). Of course, a 1.1 liter diesel engine probably won't have exactly astounding performance. I agree with you, it depends on your projected driving mix as to which vehicle technology is most appropriate. Your mainly city driving mix is ideally suited for a Prius or hybrid in general. As far as conventional emissions are concerned (e.g., NOx, PM, HC, etc.), there really needs to be a distinction made between older "legacy" diesels, and the current crop of "clean diesels". The older diesel (pre-2007 in the U.S., pre-Euro 5 in Europe) certainly had room for improvement in the emissions department. However, this has been largely achieved by the "clean diesel" technology. As a matter of fact, as the European members may be aware, diesel vehicles in Europe will soon be subject to a particle number (PN) emissions standard under Euro 5b, which is set to become effective on 1 September 2011. This standard is so restrictive that many current PFI gasoline engines, and ALL GDI gasoline engines tested thus far do NOT meet the standard that diesels must meet (6X10^11 particles/km), and even then PFI gasoline engines that do BARELY meet the standard. Speculation is that the same PN standard will be required of gasoline engines under Euro 6 in 2014, and much research is now being conduced to see how gasoline engines (especially GDI) will be able to meet the anticipated PN limit (apparently, because gasoline engines produce smaller particles than diesel engines, particulate filters are less effective on them.)
The link exists but the car appears not to. I have checked the uk Kia website and no mention of a 1.1 diesel applies to the Rio. I have checked the wikipedia page for the Rio and again no mention of a 1.1 diesel. Perhaps it's one of these limited edition concept or preproduction test models like the earlier Lupo and in the same way that the Prius Plug In is also one too.
Perhaps. It also may be that it's been emissions certified, but hasn't gone into production yet. Appears it's a 2012 model according to this Edmunds blog post... http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6716a/6394
Oh, past cars from other countries, no longer available anywhere. Normalizing for diesel's different energy content, that car didn't match the real (not estimated) 70 mpg EPA highway label of a gasoline car that did conform to US crash and emissions standards, and was sold in the US at the same time.
There's the rub. Diesels have longevity, and it will take longer for regulation improvements to reach the street where the old ones are coloring perceptions. The diesel rodders that like smoke don't help either. Incentives, positive and/or negative, are needed in order to improve these older vehicles. How to do it without hurting the small businesses and farmers, while not creating a loophole, is a concern.
But unlike many other changes that have been forced from governments, the cleaner diesel legislations seem to be moving along without much fuss. I don't see farmers or truckers occupying parliaments around Europe because of the costs of adding filters, and I think there are some good reasons for this. 1) It will be very hard to get the sympathy of the people when you protest against cleaner air. The air in larger cities is noticeably cleaner behind a modern diesel bus than an old one. 2) The cost hits everyone relatively equally and by slowly expanding the zones where filters are required, the cost of upgrading is spread out over time. 3) Filters can be produced locally, helping the individual countries create some jobs. Everyone loves a lower unemployment rate.
Some diesel rodders here were upset that Ford made their newest engine impossible to bypass emission controls on, but, yeah, most people aren't going to publicly outcry against clean diesel too loudly if they are against it. I just don't want to put a heavier burden on an individual business person than on a large corporation. What about car owners in Europe, or are older diesel cars exempt from filter requirements? At the very least, the truckers and farmers can likely deduct the filter upgrades on their taxes. That isn't likely with vehicle deemed personal use by the tax code.
Cars are currently except from the places (eco zones) I know of, but it is the plan to start including them with time. Fortunately most diesels are relatively new. The old Corolla diesels from the '80s is a dying breed and new cars get a tax discount by having filters. This is really only going one way.
Yep, diesels will soon be just as expensive as petrol hybrids, with lower power, fuel economy and residual value. They are an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
What? Toyota better start lowering the price on hybrids considerably if it wants to get down to the prices of diesels. I don't see how the price of diesel cars can be any higher than what we currently see, unless you look at the diesel hybrids that the French are tinkering with.
OK name me the top five competitors prices of SIMILAR SIZED diesel cars with the same spec as the Prius, along with their prices. Mondeo, Avensis, Insignia, Accord, 508. OK, I'm waiting
That's a nice list of cars that are larger than Prius and would compete against Avensis Hybrid if it existed. Since it doesn't, I suggest comparing the even more efficient* Auris to Golf and the other competitors in the C-segment. Fiat Punto Evo 1,3 MJT, Skoda Octavia 1,6 TDI Greenline, Volkswagen Golf 1,6 TDI BlueMotion, Volvo C30/S40/V50 DRIVe S/S. They all either match or beat Auris in fuel economy (Euro cycle) and will cost you less (price calculated from an average yearly mileage of 20000km, source: Google Translate ) *Auris beats the Prius on paper/Euro cycle.
I don't know were you get your data but in US cycle under EPA procedures Prius is rated at 50MPG, and manual Golf TDI (2.0) at 34MPG. Golf has the same passenger volume, but 1.5 less cargo space. MSRP on Golf $23,995 vs $22,120 on base Prius, due to cost to comply to diesel emissions. Avg cost of gas $3.7 and diesel is $4.
