Poorly designed dipstick

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by web1b, Sep 10, 2011.

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  1. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    I looked at the invoice and the dealership charged me for 5 full quarts of 0w20 oil at $6.99/qt. on the invoice. I asked him to have them just add 4 and give me the last bottle and I would top it up if it needed more but they said they can't do that because it's bulk oil.
    So, 4.4 of bulk is rounded up to 5? Can it even really hold a full 4.4 without being overfilled unless they let it sit and drain to the last ounce?
     
    #21 web1b, Sep 12, 2011
  2. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    I haven't had any issues with the dipstick. It works fine for me, as long as you wait about 1-2 minutes after shutdown. As long as you pull the dipstick out straight it is fine.

    If you guys think this dipstick is bad, trying checking the oil on a Nissan 3.5L, VQ35 V6.
     
    #22 The Critic, Sep 12, 2011
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    There are multiple issues with modern engines relating to this issue:

    1) Engine placement - With most modern cars, the engine is buried under a bunch of other equipment. Consequently, dipsticks often follow a torturous path to the crankcase, which encourages smearing.

    2) Thin oil - Low viscosity oils tend to run off of dipsticks. This makes it harder to get a good reading.

    3) Clean engines - Clean burning engines make for clean oil. Clean oil is hard to see on the dipstick.

    The opposite of this is my Sabb marine diesel. It has a four inch straight dipstick, and the blackest oil you have ever seen.

    Tom
     
    #23 qbee42, Sep 12, 2011
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would look for a little bare patch in the midst of the smears, that's likely the true high mark. And repeat several times (which I'm sure you're doing). Also, flip it over: sometimes one side's clearer than the other.

    I would guess they slightly overfilled, put your self in their shoes: they don't know who they're dealing with. Some customers may never check their oil. That's the mentality between slightly overilling I think. But...
     
    #24 Mendel Leisk, Sep 12, 2011
  5. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    I spoke to the service advisor and he said the dipstick was likely showing overfilled after their service because it sat overnight and the oil settled before I checked it. He said I should recheck the oil while the engine is hot. He suggested that I drive the car until the engine is hot and then check it within 2 minutes of stopping and then, even if it shows still overfilled, it will be OK because the more oil it has the better to lubricate the engine.
    He also said their computer system cannot calculate partial quarts so 4.1 quarts equals 5 quarts for billing purposes and that is the industry standard everywhere.
     
    #25 web1b, Sep 12, 2011
  6. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    1. They probably can't afford an owners manual for their shop.
    Feel free to share those owners manual instructions with them:D

    2. If they can't charge you for less than full quarts, then they can give you the remainder of the partial quart in a container.:)
     
    #26 xs650, Sep 12, 2011
  7. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    I think the guy doesn't know what he is talking about or is lying. Why is there is maximum fill line if "the more oil the better?"
    I will try checking after parking for 5 minutes in my garage and if it still shows more than slightly above the top dot, I will siphon out 8 ounces or so through the dipstick and recheck.
     
    #27 web1b, Sep 12, 2011
  8. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Your suspicion is valid. Overfilling an engine can result in the crankshaft whipping the oil around which eats up power and throws an excess of oil on the cylinder walls which isn't good for the piston rings.

    Is your garage floor level? Most of them have a small slope for drainage.
     
    #28 xs650, Sep 12, 2011
  9. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    It would take a level to see if the floor was perfectly level. Any slope to the garage floor would have to be very minimal.
     
    #29 web1b, Sep 12, 2011
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Regarding their 0.1 qt. = 1.0 qt, for billing purposes:

    Next time, if there is a next time..., tell them to put in 4 qts, and buy a quart from parts?
     
    #30 Mendel Leisk, Sep 12, 2011
  11. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    I'm considering doing that on both my Prius and my non-Prius to avoid overfilling. The money savings will be a nice bonus.
     
    #31 xs650, Sep 12, 2011
  12. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    He now says you can't do that because there is a 5 quart minimum charge at Toyota dealerships for all oil changes. So, even 3.9 quarts are charged for 5 quarts. No discount for using less because it is a mandatory item in the oil change package price.
     
    #32 web1b, Sep 12, 2011
  13. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    The dealers usually make the oil change packages up. Call a few other dealers and ask what they charge, it never hurts to shop around.
     
    #33 El Dobro, Sep 12, 2011
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    :eek:

    I remember some movie where Jack Nicholson is trying to get some plain toast in a restaurant (it wasn't on the menu): it involved ordering a chichen sandwich, holding the lettuce, holding the mayo, holding the cheese, and so on. The waitress made the mistake of asking what she should do with the chicken...

    Anyway, definitely time to try out new dealership, if possible. And/or do your own?
     
    #34 Mendel Leisk, Sep 13, 2011
  15. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    That's on of my favorite scenes


    For some on topic content....
    That waitress was a real dipstick
     
    #35 xs650, Sep 13, 2011
  16. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    Maybe they can start tinting the synthetic oil with some kind of color so it stands out against the color of the dipstick. That won't stop smearing, but it might be easier to tell where the smeared dripping oil starts and where the actual level of oil ends.
     
    #36 web1b, Sep 13, 2011
  17. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    One idea might be to perforate the dipstick with holes. That way the holes with a film filling will make reading the actual level easier.
     
    #37 FL_Prius_Driver, Sep 13, 2011
  18. web1b

    web1b Active Member

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    I decided to go back to the dealer and have them drain the excess oil.
    The service advisor restarted the engine to check the oil level despite the owners manual specifically stating the the engine should be off for a minimum of 5 minutes before checking. He said Toyota's standard for service technicians checking the oil is 30 seconds because they don't have time to wait around for 5 minutes.
    Checking the oil after 30 seconds gave a level that looked less overfilled than when I checked at home after letting the car settle for a long period, but still overfilled. To this he said extra oil is better for cooling and lubricating. I asked why the manual says do not overfill because it may cause engine damage and he said they really meant overfilling by several inches up the dipstick. He said if it was overfilled enough to cause damage, the check engine light would come on, so don't worry about it.
    I asked why they don't just fill between the minimum and maximum markings and not over and he said people would complain about being shortchanged on oil if the level is not at least at the maximum fill line. He had an answer for everything.
     
    #38 web1b, Oct 1, 2011
  19. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    And this is why I'll be doing my own services. Sounds like this guy used to work at a VW dealer.
     
    #39 El Dobro, Oct 1, 2011
  20. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    That's what I do. I buy 5 quarts of Toyota 0W-20 from the parts dept. and just give them four to put in. I can top it off myself, if necessary, but 4 qts. end up about in the middle of the hi-lo on the dipstick. I keep the remaining quart in the back for topping off, but haven't had to use it yet.
     
    #40 RRxing, Oct 2, 2011
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