http://www.auto123.com/en/toyota/camry/2012/review?carid=1126100302&artid=136411 Important bits: and In absolute terms, the XLE V6 drops by $3,000. However, given the new features available on the 7th Gen Camry, I can see where the extra $4k comes from. We'll have to see what they throw as standard equipment into the XLE V6 (and keeping in mind that they also removed a number of items as well such as the rear sunshade, reclining rear seats, LED tail/brake lights and so on)
1.19 gallons/1.3 gallons = 52 MPG city/48 mpg HWY is that official rating; how is this possibly doing as well as a Prius? Also: 29/42 rating on the 4 cylinder? Seems incredible, I question the accuracy of these. Are these really EPA numbers? 6 cylinder above says 24/37 for the V6. That city seems doable, but the 37 appears to be exceptionally high.
Yes, it's the official rating (unconfirmed since Toyota Canada hasn't released any details on the 2012 Camry yet). It's not the EPA's rating, it's Transport Canada's rating. We still use the old method (pre-2008 EPA). Our Prius is rated at 3.7/4.0 (64/59mpg). If you set the cruise at 50mph, you can achieve those numbers. I realise parts of the country have 70mph limits but within city limits, it's usually 50-60mph limits and that's where you can achieve fantastic highway mpg.
So to get down to US we can multiply by around .80? Numbers then become: Hybrid: 42/38 4 cylinder:23/33 6: 19/30 Way less impressive now., unfortunately...that 4 cylinder still lags a Sonata. 6 puts it at same as a V6 Altima. Hybrid is a bump and comparable to other hybrid sedans. I personally find the US EPAnumbers as they are currently calculated to be far more reasonable than those numbers achievable only in the most ideal of conditions. And realistic highway speeds are 70 mph, which is what EPA represents.
I don't get it? Why don't you just use the EPA numbers for the US-spec Camry?? I understand that Toronto and most of the Canadian prairies will benefit from the US rating since they do travel at higher speeds. People on either coast have lower speed limits (mostly b/c of terrain).
lol I wasn't aware the US EPA for the 2012 were out. I must be mildly delayed, sorry OK! Hybrid: 43/39 4: 25/35 6: 21/30 These from 2012 Toyota Camry Those hybrid numbers are pretty solid. Put it right there with an Insight. Insideline gives the Camry hybrid 0-60 of 7.6.
Ohhhhhh... ok np. Yep, hence the title of my other thread http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-hybrids/98808-if-prius-didnt-kill-insight-camry-will.html
Not really. It's starts at $6k more than the Insight LX, which I'd bet is the one people really buy. (I know $1800 is expensive for cruise control but people like it). But yes, it's a different market. It's the Prius c they'll be worrying about.
The lowest priced 2012 TCH is $25900 MSRP The lowest priced Insight II is $18200 MSRP. Difference is $7700. QED
Yes, toyota brought the prius C into development to compete on price with the insight. The regular prius is more of a competitor than the TCH. The camry is a different animal. It started the segment and now competes against the sonata, fussion, and hs250 and to a lesser extent the ct200. The higher mileage of the new TCH may move some prius buyers to the TCH.
So you're comparing a base TCH with a base Insight that has no basic features like a glovebox light, armrest, center console box, cruise, vanity mirrors, only 2-speakers on the stereo?? Our midrange 1997 Corolla DX Plus was better equipped than that! I would say the $21,315 EX is closer to the Camry LE Hybrid in specifications (still lacks dual climate control, rear side airbags, dual front knee airbags among other things). That's $4,500
The original argument was "How the Camry Hybrid will kill off the Insight" So we are not comparing equal equipment pricing but rather the different in lowest purchase price that can steer a Insight buyer to a Camry. Even with $4500 difference, it is not going to happen. The Insight will cater to those who want the lowest entry price.
I disagree. Buyers will not just look at the price. What you get for the price also matters. Otherwise, we'll all be riding bicycles.
I don't understand what the argument about: Insight is dead as it is, look at the sale numbers. Prius killed it alright. disclaimer: in 2009 when it came down to Insight vs Prius we picked Prius. Base Insight was not an option as it did not have cruise control. When you compare Insight LX to Prius II the difference was a few hundred for bigger car with much better MPG. just in case Toyota had a stripped down Prius I (steel rims, not cruise control, etc) as base Insight fighter. It only got sold to fleet operators, and only few. There was no need; there weren't many people buying cars w/o A/C or cruise control.
A person looking at the lowest price doesn't mean they want a stripped vehicle. People are looking for value, not strictly on actual purchase price. Even in the greenest city in Canada, I'd be hard press to find an Insight. I can find more HCHs and CR-Zs. In Canada, it's priced at $23,400 with cruise control but no TCS/VSA which is a bad move imo by Honda Canada. Forcing people to jump to a $27,500 EX to get TCS/VSA but also bundling nav and bluetooth will have people looking at the Prius instead. The Prius here starts at $27,800 so there's still at $4,400 difference (2012 TCH prices have yet to be released). So by your conjecture, I should be seeing a lot of Insights because $4,400 (esp. in Canadian dollars) is a lot of money, but I'm not.
Camry is the best selling car in America (likely other places too). I can see why - seats 5 fairly large people. Trunk is huge. Split fold down rear seats just in case... Stickers about $22,700 to start. 25 / 35 MPG But, I think one way to push full hybrids more is to emphasize and compare the city fuel economies - Camry 25 MPG Prius v 44 MPG Do people shop for car and see themselves rolling down the highway on a family vacation? How often does that happen? anyrate, some will get the Prius v. But, as gas prices go higher, more will get hybrids / EV's etc I'm seeing Leafs around. Almost every day I see a Leaf.
