Changed trans-axle fluid too soon?

Bright pink being the color of Super Long Life Coolant, I hope you mean instead bright red, the color of clean ATF.

Most people change on 60K intervals. The first change will always be the worst, black and horrifying, while subsequent changes will be progressively cleaner.

 

I'm not here to argue with you, just understand that this goes against logic. The reason is a drain and refill doesn't get rid of all the old ATF, so logic would dictate that fluid from a new car that came from the factory with 100% fresh fluid will outlast fluid that was only 90 or 95% fresh from a drain and fill.

That being said i'm going to change the transaxle fluid in my corolla and both of my prii as soon as its warm enough to do so comfortably.

 

You are assuming the breakdown products into the oil are the same amounts for each interval.

 

If breakdown products are little tiny teeny pieces of components that break off into the fluid due to moving parts than yes I guess it would make sense that components will have less and less breakdown components as the component ages.

If toyota doesn't mention the transaxle fluid in their maintenance schedule and someone follows it religiously at say their own garage or an independent shop and the transaxle fails, is there any legal recourse against toyota for not including the drain/refill in the maintenance schedule?

 

Legal resource is always an option, that doesn't mean you'll win or that you won't go broke trying.

 

CNSchult,
I didn't mean to put you in a litigious mood. Cross out the word breakdown, and substitute the word: wear.

Other threads have discussed the pros and cons of ATF oil drains more frequently than Toyota recommends. I only wished to comment on your reasoning, which made an unverified (and likely wrong) assumption.

A new logic question: We know that all moving mechanical and electric parts suffer wear with use and degradation with time (even styrofoam!!). Is Toyota responsible for any part that fails if 1, Toyota did not contractually specifically exclude responsibiity; or 2, specify an owner replacement schedule ?

 

Your legal recourse is the manufacturer's warranty, in the event your transaxle fails during the warranty period. Should your transaxle fails outside the warranty period then you get to pay for the repair yourself.

In general, it is likely that if you follow Toyota's maintenance schedule, then you can expect the powertrain to perform for the "life of the car". The automobile industry typically expects vehicle life to be 10 years / 150K miles.

Should you wish to drive your car more than 150K miles without having to replace the transaxle, then you might consider that periodic transaxle ATF replacement (if correctly done) won't harm and may help ultimate longevity of that part.

 

most posts on the subject here end up with recommending a first change at 30 Kmi ,due to previous oil analysis . I did mine at 20 Kmi to be safe. Check previous posts and the analysis results..

 

Yes the initial wear at break in is higher.

There was a thread some time ago where a member called "Bob4Wilson" looked at UOAs (used oil analyses) of Prius ATF samples at various different mileages and concluded exactly this. Based on these analyses the unofficial recommendation was to change the ATF initially at 30,000 miles, and then every 60,000 miles subsequently.

 

The initial fluid fill will contain all of the break-in wear, making it black.
The next fill will have a very small amount of the initial fluid left behind, and then it will capture particles from normal wear, which are produced at a lower rate. So it is safe to run longer.
The next fill will quite possibly be cleaner that the second fill, all else being equal. Most oil analyses show this.
The next fill beyond that will probably last the life of the car.

Thus, the general consensus here has become change it at 30K miles, and every 60K miles thereafter. There can also be an argument made for changes at 30K, 90K, 180K, 300K?, ... since analysis generally shows decreasing amounts of wear metals

The standard warranty on the trans is 5 years/60,000 miles. CARB warranty may extend that to 10/150, for certain failure modes. The cost of having a garage change out the transaxle with a salvage unit is at the utter barest minimum $1300. New at the dealership is $4500+. Compare that to the cost of a case of ATF WS at $100, which contains enough fluid to last the lifetime of the car.

It is thought that regular fluid changes will reduce the already low likelihood of failure, but that link has not been established, for lack of data. The current pattern, however, is that failed transaxles have had zero fluid changes, while those who change their fluid have not reported failure.

 

There's no way that's accurate, otherwise what would be the point of a drain plug on the tranny of a conventional car? did you only lift the front of the sc?

i'm very jealous you had a sc400, it was good-looking, classy, reliable & FWD meant you could drive it yearround. Only fault was the shifter in the auto looked like it belonged in a geo metro, so i would have gotten the stick shift which if memory serves me means I would have been forced to settle with 6 instead of the 8 cylinder model, no problem there.

where have all the premium coupes gone? in addition to the sc we've lost acura's CL which had an avail 6-speed manual and was also good-looking, reliable and FWD. another premium coupe I loved was the Mark VIII LSC, 97 & 98 were the first production vehicles on earth to be equipped with HIDs, it was RWD but those large old Fords lasted forever. (our '85 cougar 5.0 had 300,000+ miles and we only got rid of it cause it had rusted thru, the powertrain would have gone on forever).

 

No disagreement, I only want to point out that there are a *whole lot* more people who do not change the ATF periodically than those who do; and the failure rate in the 'high' group is really low, so any trend in differing failure rates between the two groups is statistical noise for now.

 

Right. For full disclosure, I formerly made a living separating information from background noise. But we are a long ways from even 1 sigma.

Unfortunately, the best source of data for high mileage with frequent changes are taxis, which makes them difficult to include, although the anecdotes from cab owners and service providers suggest that the transaxles last longer on those cabs that get service. Anyway, $100 is cheap insurance, not to mention a way to know your car and potentially find another problem, like a leaking axle seal.