Can I use 0w20 ?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by alexeft, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Water vapor and hydrocarbon combustion byproducts accumulate over time, forming sludge in the oil.

    In the US, the 5,000 mile oil change interval resulted from the class action lawsuit that Toyota settled around a decade ago, where some Toyota V6 engines suffered damage from insufficient lubrication.

    The owners claimed they observed the 7,500 mile engine oil change intervals in effect at that time. Hence Toyota reduced the interval to 5,000 miles. For Prius, that change started in model year 2004.

    I believe that the quality of lubricating oils available in the US is not necessarily the same as in Europe, so an extended change practice observed in Europe may not make sense in the US.

    You also need to consider the cost of motor oil when evaluating the change interval. In the US, you can purchase 5 US quarts of brand-name (Mobil, Pennzoil, Castrol) full synthetic oil at Walmart for around US$25 plus local sales tax.

    I would be interested to hear from our European members what they pay for an equivalent amount of synthetic motor oil in their locales. Obviously, if you pay substantially more for the motor oil, you would not be thrilled about changing it at 5K mile intervals.

    Regarding the use of 0W-20 in 2G Prius, I think that is OK in the winter season. I would not use that in a season when the ambient temperature exceeds 90 degrees F. My personal experience with my 2004 was that noticeable oil consumption started after that use, even when I moved back to synthetic 5W-30.
     
  2. alexeft

    alexeft Member

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    5 liters of mobil 1 synthetic would be ~70 euros here. Not exactly cheap.
    0w20 full synthetic might reach 100 euros :(

    It seems to me that in essence, Toyota prefers that oil be changed if it is cheap enough (like in the US).

    The proposed oil change interval here is ~9k miles.

    Patrick Wong: at what mileage did your Prius start using oil and how much?
     
  3. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    We pay substantially more as follows;

    Halfords | Engine Oils & Car Fluids | Power Steering Fluid | Brake Fluid

    Be aware that the price includes 20% sales tax/vat. I think the thinking here is that it is better to put top quality oil in your pride and joy rather than the cheap stuff you get from the local supermarket.

    I think it started many years ago where most larger cars were company cars as a perk (like health insurance) where companies and lease companies would rather the cars were serviced less often and thus keep them on the road longer. There was also the inconvenience factor arranging many cars to head in for servicing. It's bad enough remembering to get the car serviced once a year, let alone twice or more. I worked in a companies fleet department once which had about 100 cars and we were always taking them in for service and getting them tested. The work and staff levels would almost double with lower service intervals. So pay more for quality oil and increase service intervals and reduce staff levels. Company cars are still a popular perk here in the UK despite them being liable to tax. The headache of running costs, insurance and servicing are all taken care of by the company.

    Before people are concerned about cars going unchecked for long periods of time. We have a very stringent safety and emissions test every 12 months which keeps the wrecks off the road.
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1 US quart = 0.95 liter
    7o Euros ~ US$90

    US$90 x 0.95 = $85.50, which is more than 3x the US Walmart price. No wonder you wish to eke out the last dregs of service life from your oil, when paying European prices.

    I believe that I tried Toyota 0W20 in the 2004 at around 70K miles, when I lived in southern California (south Orange County.)
     
  5. alexeft

    alexeft Member

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    Ok, here's the whole thought behind me using 0w20.

    I ordered a bypass oil filter which I expect to have delivered to me in a few days. It is supposed to keep the oil analytically clean, so that it lasts longer. It also substantially reduces engine wear, since wear causing particles are not there any more. Please note that a regular full flow filter filters down to 30 or 40 microns, while a bypass goes down to 2. It is said (and found by relevant studies) that 60 to 70% of engine wear comes from particles in the 5-20 micron range ie the ones that the full flow filter doesn't filter.

    Now, I could keep using the old 5w40 which I can find at a good price, but the substantially increased oil change interval allows me to use a more expensive 0w20 and achieve better FE. A little usage because of the thin oil would be beneficial, since I would be able to replenish various additives in the oil, it's TBN (Total Base Number) mostly.

    Oil thinning could be a problem but I don't do really short distances when I use the car, plus it's on LPG, so the oil won't be fuel diluted.

    I intend to watch the oil condition via used oil analysis initially, until I find a good oil change interval.

    Of course, all of the above stands if there is a ROI, otherwise it's going to be 5w40 again and 10k mile oil changes.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Why is the choice between 5W40 and 0W20?

    If your climate is moderate and you wish to improve fuel economy, why not use 5W30 or 5W20? Hopefully you can find those viscosity grades at a similar price to 5W40.

    I believe that you may obtain 2-5% improved fuel economy when moving from 5W30 to 0w20.
     
  7. alexeft

    alexeft Member

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    There's no way I can find anything below 5w40 at an acceptable price. So, if I am going to do it, I will reach the end of it. If FE is not satisfactory, I will return to my usual Motul 8100 Xcess 5w40.

    You see, all the 30 oils are considered modernities here, not to mention the 20 ones. Hence the hefty price.
     
  8. alexeft

    alexeft Member

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    Some results after all this time.

    Been using M1 0w30 for the past 16.5k miles. Wanted to avoid the high cost of 0w20, as well as possibly higher oil consumption. Might try in the future.

    Car has 141.5 k miles. It runs on lpg. It also has a bypass oil filter that filters down to 2um.
    Last oil change was done 16.5k miles ago, along with the normal oil filter.
    The normal oil filter was changed at 15k miles, where I measured the pH as follows:
    Made a solution of 100ml used oil, 200 ml tap water, 200ml of alcohol. This was done
    because pH can't be measured in oil.

    The resulting pH was ~5.2 which looks good, if a condemnation limit of 3.5 (as was written in an article I saw) is considered as good to follow.

    I also need to try some new oil for comparison.

    1 liter of oil is added every 6k miles, as they some minor consumption.

    I will recheck the pH at 31k miles to decide if an oil change will be done or not!!!!

    Engine is purring like a kitten. On my second car, I change its dino oil every 12.5 miles, oil filter at double that. Been using synthetic oil filters with very high filtering capability. This engine is sheding almost no metal, as seen on its magnetic oil drain plug. Considering this, the prius should have no problem on synthetic oil.

    Some will protest about possible sludge, but lpg keeps the engine really clean, the exact opposite of gasoline. When changing the oil, I can see through it as it comes out, plus, I rarely do small distances, so, the engine warms up.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Just to verify, that's propane you're running on?
     
  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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  11. alexeft

    alexeft Member

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    In some countries it's called propane, others lpg, gpl, autogas etc
    It's actually a mixture of propane and butane. In my country it's 20% propane and 80% butane.
     
  12. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    LPG or Autogas is primarily a mixture of propane and butane, though it can also have a very small amounts of a some other hydrocarbons like propene.

    Propane and butane both have similar energy content, however the vapor pressure of butane is lower than that of propane. In the US the LPG is predominantly propane, but in many countries without a cold climate there may also be a significant amount of butane in the mix. Essentially the ratio of propane to butane can be adjusted to give the desired vapor pressure for the target climate
     
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