Shifted into Park in Automatic Car Wash

Don't think that will happen and, if it did, entirely the car wash attendant's fault as I'm sure there are WARNINGS to NEVER GET BETWEEN THE CARS in the car wash unless car wash is shutdown and locked out.

Liability in this case is purely Toyota's as there is no prominent WARNING to drivers about car shifting in Park other than some comments hidden deep in the manual. Dangerous disabling of the vehicle such as this would need to be a sticker on the sun shade or other prominent display.

Also, in this case, Toyota's warning to driver was wrong as putting the vehicle in Drive would have been the answer to prevent damage but according to the description the Prius told the driver he must engage Park. Wrong and damaging advice.

 

No it is not the wrong advise !!! This is how the car is designed. Being pulled in Neutral by a carwash apparatus probably out of design spec... by the way the manual specifically NOT recomending using automatic cars washes ...(paint damage and other stuff ...)

 

Prius does perfectly fine in neutral in car wash. It's not "out of design spec" and there is no warning by Toyota not to use car washes. If there was, I would not have purchased the vehicle. I wash frequently to get winter salt and dirt off and summer bugs and dust.

Until Toyota fixes the problem, the warning should be to put car in Drive or Park "as necessary for safety" vs. the incorrect warning to put car in Park with no idea if that is safe.

Even better allowing engine to start and charge in Neutral.

 

If I were the OP, I would report the incident to NHTSA: File a Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

That would at least force Toyota into looking at this significant issue. The designers of Prius were probably not familiar with automatic washes in USA.

 

Likely many situations (pushing car out of snow comes to mind or off road out of gas) where the Prius shifting into Park is dangerous.

 

Sure it does in my manual says : "Brushes used in automatic car washes may scratch the vehicle surface and harm your vehicle's paint". and whole other things like remove antenna etc...

It doesn't say do not use carwash ... so you are right

This scenario is covered YOU CAN NOT charge the HV battery in N... whether or not ICE is on.

This is noted in my manual on page 210 and it recommends not have N in extended period of time ... if you do not think a car wash possibly an extended period well I am not sure....

By the way, how much safer it would be if you can change back to D (that can ONLY be done if you press the break pedal resulting the same in this situation. that is protecting the car by the way).

 

The recall will be on the car wash's machinery and safety practices, not on the cars.

 

The worker's attorney will go after Toyota which has much deeper pockets than the car wash. The car wash's insurance will also go after Toyota. A jury would also find it a problem for Toyota.

 

Confirmed*

I brought my car down to 2 bars and then sat there in neutral with the AC blasting, the headlights on and the radio going.

I use a * because here is how it works.
At 1 bar:

>the car starts beeping (like you are in reverse or dont have a seat belt buckled)
>the orange triangle "!" starts flashing
>the dash board tells you "Traction battery low shift to something other than park to charge"

The car warns you for a very long time before shifting, I am guessing it is longer than 5 minutes- maybe even 10!
Then when it shifts it runs the engine for a long time. It charged me from 1 bar all the way up to 3. It also took what would have been a ~56mpg trip down to 40mpg but thats besides the point and varies on a lot of factors-
The point is that the gas engine than ran for like 10 minutes.

So it really isnt like the battery gets all the way low and the car automatically throws it into neutral. It wanrs you for a long time what is about to happen. Considering it can only charge in park, drive, or reverse, park seems logically the safest.

 

Thanks for testing I would NOT put my car through this ... so again this is really not the car fault it was a clear misuse....

As an owner of the Prius you need to know that car somewhat different !!! By the way if you had any conventional car with automatic transmission and your 12V is really really dead in many instances you CAN NOT switch to N from P either !!!! You may not even able to disengage the parking break either !!! Just to make it even....

(you would need a jumper box or jump from another car just to change gear )

 

Correct. So liability for damage done in this case is entirely on Toyota for:

1. Not PROMINENTLY warning customers about shutdown.
2. Not including shifting into Drive vs. Park in the warning.
3. Design flaw.

The issue was car going into Park not engine coming on or charging the high voltage battery.

Car wash would define short time period of 2-5 minutes.

Much safer in this situation as light brake pressure would be needed to prevent the creep from getting ahead of the car wash roller. Engine's on, HV getting charged, car is not stuck in car wash, car is not damaged in car wash, car gets washed, everyone is happy and safe.

 

dangerous to go through the car wash in D, you dont know how much brake to apply and if it is too much you are going to jump the roller and get rear ended. The amount of braking would vary and be based on the kind of roller that is being used. There are low profile, mid and high rollers. You will never be able to jump a high roller but the other two would require different amounts of braking.

 

So, you sat in neutral at 2 bars and then after the 5-10 minutes (w/AC full blast, headlights on, etc.), it shifted to park?

Did you try shifting to neutral or drive right after that? It didn't power off, right? If it did, could you power it back on immediately?

Can your Gen 3 be forced charged by using both pedals?

(I'd consider trying this myself on my Gen 2 but it wouldn't prove much about Gen 3 behavior since I don't have one.)

 

A. Yes it shifted but it wasnt based on time, it was based on battery. I started at 2 bars and the warnings did not start until 1 bar. Ignoring the warnings for long enough and the car has to do something to protect the main battery. Since it cannot charge in neutral and needs to protect itself (not letting it totally discharge) it will put itself into a state where it CAN charge. Only 3 states allow this: "P" "D" or "R". As you were in neutral to begin with, it assumes you do not want to MOVE so the safest remaining choice is "P" at which point it will kick on the gas engine and start a rather long recharge cycle.

B. I could not shift back into neutral but I could shift back into drive without problem nd the engine continued to charge. The car did not power off, just went into the safest state where it could start the ICE. You could override its choice by stepping on the brake and selecting "D" or "R" without issue. The car shifted, the ICE continued running.

C. I do not understand force charged. If the warnings are going off and you dont wait for the automatic shift to park- instead you shifted to another gear like it was suggesting then the ICE would start right away and the charging would begin.

 

Less dangerous than getting stuck in Park which is the issue.

I'd imagine if you can drive a car, you can figure out how much brake to apply. Just let the car creep out of the car wash. Worst case, you don't get the full wash and dry.

The WORST thing to do is what Toyota does, jam the car into Park while moving and then getting rear ended by the next car in the wash.

 

Hawgwarsh, Proxy. In other situations, self-shifting from a non-propulsive gear to a propulsive gear is more dangerous and deadly than shifting into Park. The whole idea is a non-starter.

 

Why can't the vehicle just turn off and remain in neutral without being put into park in this circumstance ?

 

True. One could always engage the emergency brake to stop the car so going into neutral would be the best choice offering the driver more choices based on situation. Could roll the car out of danger or put on the emergency brake to stop it.

Not sure why the shutdown at all. Discharging the 12V battery would be the biggest problem so Neutral engine one should charge the 12V battery.

Car should simply stop discharging the HV propulsion battery if discharging it below a certain level damages it which doesn't make sense but who give Toyota benefit of they doubt.

Thread has been useful though, now we know what the design flaw of the car is regarding shutdown to Park, so we can avoid it by shifting car into Drive.

 

I'm talking about force charging the HV battery prior to entering the car wash, so that you never get into a battery low situation.

That said, it seems like it takes a LONG time to get into this bad state, so it again seems like user error w/the OP. Perhaps he sat around in neutral (and w/the AC on) prior to entering the car wash? And, he left the AC on while in the car wash? Both would be bad ideas.

And... the OP hasn't returned since his Thursday post...

 

I wonder how Toyota rolls the Prius down the assembly line?