Can anyone tell me what are the major performance (HP), and MPG differences between Gen 1, Gen 2 to Gen3?
yes. sold in model years 2001 to 2003 in US. 2009 Prius - 46 mpg combined 2010+ : 50 mpg 01 - 03 was rated in low 40s In about 2007, Prius was something like 61 city / 50 hwy. There was a stink about that.
I love it when this question comes up b/c there is virtually no gain in mpg from gen 1 to gen 3. Here's the EPA numbers Version City/Hwy Gen 1 52/45 Gen 2 48/45 Gen 3 51/48
Which is interesting, all the technology and all these years of messing around with the software tuning from Toyota there were no real improvement to MPG. However they did make it go faster.
I think the Gen I mpg estimate was based on a different formula. You won't find any Gen I owners averaging in the mid-50's. [Edit:] If you go to fueleconomy.gov you'll find that the 2002 Prius is listed at 42/41/41 under the current formula.
The EPA rating method changed with 2008 model year. The Gen 1 figures you quote are based on the old method. On the new method they change from 52/45 to 42/41. Check the info here:- Compare Old and New Estimates There was a big mpg improvement from Gen 1 to Gen 2. There was a small mpg improvement from Gen 2 to Gen 3 but the car became larger and more powerful.
EPA are only estimates, based on standardized tests. Real-World numbers tell a different story. I've owned each: Classic Prius Lifetime MPG at 59,827 miles was: 45.4 Iconic Prius Lifetime MPG at 118,185 miles was: 47.7 2010 Prius Lifetime MPG at 55,835 miles was: 50.0 The gain can easily be seen from that.
So this really supports the lack of gain in mpg from year to year. This basically says that from 2001 - 2013, the average mpg of the Prius only increased by 4.6 mpgs (less than 10%). This tells me that the HSD is nearly at its limit and without a major engineering breakthrough (such as the HSD when it was first built), future gains will have to come from aero mods or lighter materials. I know you kept meticulous records and this is true for you but, unfortunately, it is only one data point. Many data points are needed for scientific research (which produces "facts"). I would also point to Bob Wilson as a data point who gets 52 mpg's with his Gen I and 52 mpg's w/ his Gen III (which is also one data point). There's just so much more to the story. When you first got your Classic, did you know how to hypermile? Did that affect your lifetime mpg? If you knew how to hypermile your Classic on day one, what would your lifetime mpg be? And numerous other questions that need to be considered. I could add another data point (my personal experience) to support my opinion but it would really be futile. People can point to Fuelly but that data can be skewed (and probably is). Fuelly is probably a good measure of overall efficiency though. PS: I don't say all of this to start an argument (which I fully expect heated responses to this post). Its just the way I see it (and it may be wrong and probably is). I see virtually no difference between my Classic and my Iconic except for aerodynamics. I have never drive a Gen 3, so I can add no thoughts on this.
Good info. 42/41 is low to me but it looks like Fuelly averages bear that out. If that's what it is then I have to defer to that and I stand corrected.
You nailed it, this is exactly what I was getting at. So basically looks like Toyota nailed it with the 1st gen on the hybrid system design and efficiency. The only other thing they did to increase MPG was adding the plug in model.
There's nothing quantifying that statement. The gain is undeniable, as is the increase in size & power to go along with the efficiency increase. Also, note how cost (for business-sustaining profit) was reduced at the same time. 161 MPG was the outcome of my commute this morning. That was achieved through the use of a larger battery-pack and a plug. No breakthrough necessary. They planned ahead.
There is a lot to quantify that statement, I just chose not to argue with you. I could give a very strong argument to support my point (as I'm sure you could). What quantifies or more accurately stated "supports" that statement are the answers to my questions: When you first got your Classic, did you know how to hypermile? Did that affect your lifetime mpg? If you knew how to hypermile your Classic on day one, what would your lifetime mpg be? The fact is, no one knew how to hypermile the Prius in 01. You became a better hypermiler as time passed and you gained experience. It did affect your lifetime mpg (negatively) and the last question cannot be answered but, I'll bet your lifetime mpg would be higher (deductive reasoning says "yes"). Plug in to Standard Prius is an apples to oranges comparison but mpg figures from a Plug in with a depleted battery do support my statement.
Sadly for your line of thought, John kept meticulous records. His first month driving his 2001 Prius was his best month for 3 years. http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius-2001_MPG_Graphs_Lifetime.pdf If I had to guess, that is a graph of how warm it is where John is driving.
It seems to me that gasoline direct injection could help quite a bit. I don't know what challenges it would face in an Atkinson cycle application but I suspect Toyota's considered it.
Even the definition of "generation" becomes a mess when we try to cross-compare between automakers. For that matter, look back at non-hybrid vehicles. Setting of expectations looking forward is the goal of trying to squeeze out detail. Got any for the 4th Gen? We knew how to hypermile within months after rollout. The engineer owners were having a blast observing & analyzing the system. I never followed that crowd. It was always JUST DRIVE IT. And still to this day, I don't hypemile. However, I do push the HV/EV button now. That could be considered a driver-influenced efficiency manuever. My consistency (same home, same job, same recreation... lack of change) has actually been a major contributor to endorsing Prius. I've witnessed the improvements firsthand. I have, many times. MPG is slightly better... which is a big deal, since naysayers didn't believe that would be possible with the added weight. But then again, it uses a Li-Ion based battery, which in itself my push it into a "generation" category. My comment was that the HSD approach had taken into account adding battery-capacity and a plug many years ago and mostly just had to wait for cost to drop. The upgrade was cooked into the original design.
