Global Warming: loading the extreme weather dice

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, May 21, 2013.

  1. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    It is difficult to listen to different opinions or have a pet world view questioned, isn't it? Look how you've reacted so far.
     
  2. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Really ?
    The best climate scientists were chosen by the IPCC to work on their report.
    Will you listen to them?
    I doubt very much that you will.
    You will only listen to the few scientists who are liars.

    1. Dr Robert Balling: "The IPCC notes that "No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected." (This did not appear in the IPCC Summary for Policymakers).

    2. Dr. Lucka Bogataj: "Rising levels of airborne carbon dioxide don't cause global temperatures to rise.... temperature changed first and some 700 years later a change in aerial content of carbon dioxide followed."

    3. Dr John Christy: "Little known to the public is the fact that most of the scientists involved with the IPCC do not agree that global warming is occurring. Its findings have been consistently misrepresented and/or politicized with each succeeding report."

    4. Dr Rosa Compagnucci: "Humans have only contributed a few tenths of a degree to warming on Earth. Solar activity is a key driver of climate."

    5. Dr Richard Courtney: "The empirical evidence strongly indicates that the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis is wrong."

    6. Dr Judith Curry: "I'm not going to just spout off and endorse the IPCC because I don't have confidence in the process."

    7. Dr Robert Davis: "Global temperatures have not been changing as state of the art climate models predicted they would. Not a single mention of satellite temperature observations appears in the (IPCC) Summary for Policymakers."

    8. Dr Willem de Lange: "In 1996, the IPCC listed me as one of approximately 3,000 "scientists" who agreed that there was a discernable human influence on climate. I didn't. There is no evidence to support the hypothesis that runaway catastrophic climate change is due to human activities."

    9. Dr Chris de Freitas: "Government decision-makers should have heard by now that the basis for the longstanding claim that carbon dioxide is a major driver of global climate is being questioned; along with it the hitherto assumed need for costly measures to restrict carbon dioxide emissions. If they have not heard, it is because of the din of global warming hysteria that relies on the logical fallacy of 'argument from ignorance' and predictions of computer models."

    10. Dr Oliver Frauenfeld: "Much more progress is necessary regarding our current understanding of climate and our abilities to model it."

    11. Dr Peter Dietze: "Using a flawed eddy diffusion model, the IPCC has grossly underestimated the future oceanic carbon dioxide uptake."

    12. Dr John Everett: "It is time for a reality check. The oceans and coastal zones have been far warmer and colder than is projected in the present scenarios of climate change. I have reviewed the IPCC and more recent scientific literature and believe that there is not a problem with increased acidification, even up to the unlikely levels in the most-used IPCC scenarios."

    13. Dr Eigil Friis-Christensen: "The IPCC refused to consider the sun's effect on the Earth's climate as a topic worthy of investigation. The IPCC conceived its task only as investigating potential human causes of climate change."

    14. Dr Lee Gerhard: "I never fully accepted or denied the anthropogenic global warming (AGW) concept until the furor started after [NASA's James] Hansen's wild claims in the late 1980's. I went to the [scientific] literature to study the basis of the claim, starting at first principles. My studies then led me to believe that the claims were false."

    15. Dr Indur Goklany: "Climate change is unlikely to be the world's most important environmental problem of the 21st century. There is no signal in the mortality data to indicate increases in the overall frequencies or severities of extreme weather events, despite large increases in the population at risk."

    16. Dr Vincent Gray: "The (IPCC) climate change statement is an orchestrated litany of lies."

    17. Dr Kenneth Green: "We can expect the climate crisis industry to grow increasingly shrill, and increasingly hostile toward anyone who questions their authority."

    18. Dr Mike Hulme: "Claims such as '2,500 of the world's leading scientists have reached a consensus that human activities are having a significant influence on the climate' are disingenuous ... The actual number of scientists who backed that claim was "only a few dozen."

    19. Dr Kiminori Itoh: "There are many factors which cause climate change. Considering only greenhouse gases is nonsense and harmful. When people know what the truth is they will feel deceived by science and scientists."

    20. Dr Yuri Izrael: "There is no proven link between human activity and global warming. I think the panic over global warming is totally unjustified. There is no serious threat to the climate."

    21. Dr Steven Japar: "Temperature measurements show that the climate model-predicted mid-troposphere hot zone is non-existent. This is more than sufficient to invalidate global climate models and projections made with them."

    22. Dr Georg Kaser: "This number (of receding glaciers reported by the IPCC) is not just a little bit wrong, but far out of any order of magnitude ... It is so wrong that it is not even worth discussing,"

    23. Dr Aynsley Kellow: "I'm not holding my breath for criticism to be taken on board, which underscores a fault in the whole peer review process for the IPCC: there is no chance of a chapter [of the IPCC report] ever being rejected for publication, no matter how flawed it might be."

    24. Dr Madhav Khandekar: "I have carefully analysed adverse impacts of climate change as projected by the IPCC and have discounted these claims as exaggerated and lacking any supporting evidence."

    25. Dr Hans Labohm: "The alarmist passages in the (IPCC) Summary for Policymakers have been skewed through an elaborate and sophisticated process of spin-doctoring."

    26. Dr. Andrew Lacis: "There is no scientific merit to be found in the Executive Summary. The presentation sounds like something put together by Greenpeace activists and their legal department."

    27. Dr Chris Landsea: "I cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound."

    28. Dr Richard Lindzen: "The IPCC process is driven by politics rather than science. It uses summaries to misrepresent what scientists say and exploits public ignorance."

    29. Dr Harry Lins: "Surface temperature changes over the past century have been episodic and modest and there has been no net global warming for over a decade now. The case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated."

    30. Dr Philip Lloyd: "I am doing a detailed assessment of the IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science. I have found examples of a summary saying precisely the opposite of what the scientists said."

    31. Dr Martin Manning: "Some government delegates influencing the IPCC Summary for Policymakers misrepresent or contradict the lead authors."

    32. Stephen McIntyre: "The many references in the popular media to a "consensus of thousands of scientists" are both a great exaggeration and also misleading."

    33. Dr Patrick Michaels: "The rates of warming, on multiple time scales have now invalidated the suite of IPCC climate models. No, the science is not settled."

    34. Dr Nils-Axel Morner: "If you go around the globe, you find no sea level rise anywhere."

    35. Dr Johannes Oerlemans: "The IPCC has become too political. Many scientists have not been able to resist the siren call of fame, research funding and meetings in exotic places that awaits them if they are willing to compromise scientific principles and integrity in support of the man-made global-warming doctrine."

    36. Dr Roger Pielke: "All of my comments were ignored without even a rebuttal. At that point, I concluded that the IPCC Reports were actually intended to be advocacy documents designed to produce particular policy actions, but not as a true and honest assessment of the understanding of the climate system."

    37. Dr Jan Pretel: "It's nonsense to drastically reduce emissions ... predicting about the distant future-100 years can't be predicted due to uncertainties."

    38. Dr Paul Reiter: "As far as the science being 'settled,' I think that is an obscenity. The fact is the science is being distorted by people who are not scientists."

    39. Dr Murray Salby: "I have an involuntary gag reflex whenever someone says the "science is settled. Anyone who thinks the science is settled on this topic is in fantasia."

    40. Dr Tom Segalstad: "The IPCC global warming model is not supported by the scientific data."

    41. Dr Fred Singer: "Isn't it remarkable that the Policymakers Summary of the IPCC report avoids mentioning the satellite data altogether, or even the existence of satellites--probably because the data show a (slight) cooling over the last 18 years, in direct contradiction to the calculations from climate models?"

    42. Dr Hajo Smit: "There is clear cut solar-climate coupling and a very strong natural variability of climate on all historical time scales. Currently I hardly believe anymore that there is any relevant relationship between human CO2 emissions and climate change."

    43. Dr Roy Spencer: "The IPCC is not a scientific organization and was formed to regulate carbon dioxide emissions. Claims of human-cause global warming are only a means to that goal."

    44. Dr Richard Tol: "The IPCC attracted more people with political rather than academic motives. In AR4, green activists held key positions in the IPCC and they succeeded in excluding or neutralising opposite voices."

    45. Dr Tom Tripp: "There is so much of a natural variability in weather it makes it difficult to come to a scientifically valid conclusion that global warming is man made."

    46. Dr Robert Watson: "The (IPCC) mistakes all appear to have gone in the direction of making it seem like climate change is more serious by overstating the impact. That is worrying. The IPCC needs to look at this trend in the errors and ask why it happened."

    47. Dr Gerd-Rainer Weber: "Most of the extremist views about climate change have little or no scientific basis."

    48. Dr David Wojick: "The public is not well served by this constant drumbeat of alarms fed by computer models manipulated by advocates."

    49. Dr Miklos Zagoni: "I am positively convinced that the anthropogenic global warming theory is wrong."

    50. Dr. Eduardo Zorita: "Editors, reviewers and authors of alternative studies, analysis, interpretations, even based on the same data we have at our disposal, have been bullied and subtly blackmailed. By writing these lines... a few of my future studies will not see the light of publication."

    MUST READ: John O'Sullivan: Fifty IPCC Experts Expose Washington Post Global Warming Lies | Climate Realists
     
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  3. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Sage, what kind of education is necessary to read and understand these charts an graphs?

     
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  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Absolutely.

    I just have enough sense to avoid quotations taken out of context for Senator Inhofe's garbage. For an example, Look at your #28, Prof Richard Lindzen of MIT. Here is what he said in a 2012 NYT interview:
     
  5. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Real scientists are confident enough to acknowledge minor mistakes and accept the embarrassment,and make appropriate corrections .
    Your liars, who have books and papers and Congressional reports written about their incompetence and in Hansens case,empirical evidence ,yet will not acknowledge any mistake.
    Thats a liar for you.





    d
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was thinking of the El Reno tornado and it's exceptionally wide path:
    Source: El Reno, Oklahoma Tornado Believed To Be Widest Twister On Record

    This matches my earlier expectation and certainly was evident in this layman's observations of that day.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Your supposition was that higher temps cause increasingly severe weather. What was the temp or temp trend leading up to that day? I notice the data and the "layman" you cited left that out.
     
  8. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    The Significant Tornado Parameter (STP - Help - Significant Tornado Parameter (effective layer)), which was discussed earlier in this thread, was extremely high on the day of the El Reno tornado in that general region (STP = 12+). STP values of 1 or greater are usually cause for concern for potential significant tornadoes.
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The important temps are the ones over the tropics where the water evaporates. The time frame is over the period needed to make that mass of warm, humid air, on the order of a week(s).

    When I lived in Oklahoma, we used to call it 'Gulf moisture.' But with satellite data, we can see the moist, warm, air mass(es) move in from the tropics, over Mexico and up into the Great Plains. To see the accumulation over Oklahoma, we'd have to look at a week's worth of satellite data before the event and even then, probably over a significant part of the Pacific Ocean tropical zone.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    The Gulf was abnormally cold before and during the Moore Ok Tornado.
    Contrast the 2013 graphs with the third graph from 2012.A year when the Gulf was extremely hot and tornadoes were extremely absent .
    anoma.5.9.2013.gif anoma.5.20.2013.gif apr12_gulf_sst.gif
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You need to look to the West of Mexico to see the tropical Pacific areas that create the humid air in Oklahoma . . . actually the Midwest and even Alabama. The humidity or surface temperature of the Gulf of Mexico pretty well feeds a different severe storm, a hurricane.

    It wasn't until I started looking at satellite images and could see the high clouds move from the area South and West of Baja that I finally got a clue.

    Good try but the Gulf of Mexico has played only a minor role in the humidity patterns I've been seeing. Hurricanes, yes, but the Gulf of Mexico tends to feed humidity in a North Easterly direction . . . at least with the snapshots I've been seeing.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    The wind was from the south May 20 and abnormally cold.
    (straight end of barbed lines are the direction.)

    moorewind.jpg
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Mojo, did you seriously just post a map of ground level wind to support your supposition that humidity from the gulf fed the storm system over Oklahoma?

    Your conclusion may be correct, but you should use data about the upper level winds to support your statement.
     
  15. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    I'd like to know if you have any cite's that support this conclusion and . . .


    I'm sure sagebrush will be along shortly to ask . . . "What is your science background in general, and in regard to Earth science in particular ?"

    Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/global-warming-loading-the-extreme-weather-dice.126780/page-6#ixzz2W2YuSRsD

    Well that is if he's consistent, unbiased and not a hypocrite.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Just patterns I've noticed over the years now that we can get satellite data at our desktops.

    As for consistency, well we are human.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    But those with opposing viewpoints as well as evidence and data to support it aren't human?
     
  18. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    @ low level is where the warmer moist air came from south to north.
    The jet stream which is colder came from the west to east @18000 ft.
    This was example of cold air from the south,interacting with even COLDER air in the jetstream.
    Global Warming had nothing to due with cold and colder.
    BTW both Moore and the swarm tornadoes a few weeks after,were caused by massive solar flares which erupted before both events .
    Both events predicted a month in advance BTW.
    The derecho coming is the next prediction.


     
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    An (apparent) correlation between solar flares and tornadoes (or any other such event) could be statistically tested. The next step would be to propose a mechanism. I am totally in favor of this approach.

    Cheering for a single accurate prediction (or even several), lacking the above, well that's a whole 'nother thing.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    What I'm seeing fascinating are the advances at the NOAA weather site. It looks like significantly improved weather models are becoming more common not only at NOAA but down to local TV weather departments. In effect, the weather models are reaching a state that covers the high resolution, real-time data collected locally and are moving towards the element size of the climate models. Like stalactites and stalagmites growing towards each other, these advances in climate modeling and weather software are stunning.

    Over time, superstitions are either explained or replaced:
    • Expect rain when dogs eat grass, cats purr and wash, sheep turn into the wind, oxen sniff the air, and swine are restless.
    • If the bull leads the cows to pasture, expect rain; if the cows precede the bull, the weather will be uncertain.
    • When cats sneeze, it is a sign of rain.
    • When cattle lie down in the pasture, it indicates early rain.
    • Bats flying late in the evening indicates fair weather.
    • If the groundhog sees its shadow on Candlemas Day (February 2), six more weeks of winter remain.
    • When horses and cattle stretch out their necks and sniff the air, it will rain.
    • If the mole digs its hole 2½ feet deep, expect severe weather; if two feet deep, not so severe; if one foot deep, a mild winter.
    • When pigs gather leaves and straw in all, expect a cold winter.
    • When rabbits are fat in October and November, expect a long, cold winter.
    • If sheep ascend hills and scatter, expect clear weather.
    • Wolves always howl more before a storm.
    Source: Weather Proverbs Folklore Prognostics Animals

    Bob Wilson