The myth is that short trips are worse than long trips. The myth is that long trip drivers don't have to face the short trip penalty. Are we clear yet? Do you have a better suggestion for a new title?
Where does it say that longer drives don't have to face the short trip penalty on this or any other forum or website? And thus propagating this second myth you bring up? It is only logical that one must progress through the warm up cycle when driving longer distances as well. It has already been pointed out that this penalty is mitigated by the higher mpg obtained following the warm up cycle so that the average mpg for the trip is higher. SCH-I535
Short Trip Math As the car warms up, the initial, low MPG for each mile rapidly improves. However, the trip average MPG is the average of all miles traveled up to that point: Column 1 0 [tr][th]mile[th]MPG[th]0[th]1[th]2[th]3[th]4[th]5[th]6[th]7[th]8[th]9 1 [tr][td2]1[td2]25.0[td2]25[td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2] 2 [tr][td2]2[td2]37.5[td2]25[td2]50[td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2] 3 [tr][td2]3[td2]58.0[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2] 4 [tr][td2]4[td2]68.3[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2][td2][td2][td2][td2][td2] 5 [tr][td2]5[td2]74.4[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2][td2][td2][td2][td2] 6 [tr][td2]6[td2]78.5[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2][td2][td2][td2] 7 [tr][td2]7[td2]81.4[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2][td2][td2] 8 [tr][td2]8[td2]83.6[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2][td2] 9 [tr][td2]9[td2]85.3[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2] 10 [tr][td2]10[td2]86.7[td2]25[td2]50[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99[td2]99 11 [tr] 25 MPG mile 0->1 - this is the initial warm-up penalty, the universal, minimum short trip, as well as acceleration from rest, 0 mph to neighborhood 25 mph speed 50 MPG mile 1->2 - the warm-up continues and includes acceleration from 25-to-0-to-27 mph for STOP signs and acceleration to 27 mph 99 MPG mile 2->3 ... 10 - the warm-up is done and the per mile, MPG is at a constant 27 mph Every extra mile 'dilutes' the initial warm-up and stop-start fuel burns so the trip average smoothly increases. This continues to improve as the distance covered increases because each subsequent mile adds another 99 MPG segment. It is part of a series: MPG(trip) = MPG(1) / 1MPG(trip) = ( MPG(1) + MPG(2) ) / 2MPG(trip) = ( MPG(1) + MPG(2) + MPG(3) ) / 3MPG(trip) = ( MPG(1) + MPG(2) + MPG(3) +MPG(4) ) / 4. . . This math increased my tank MPG simply by converting my ~13 mile commute to an ~27 mile commute. By adding 'laps' at 99.9 MPG before parking at work, each commute moved the per tank MPG up from a normal 52 MPG to 91.8 MPG: No one can escape the 1st mile, MPG hit due to warm-up and initial acceleration. But we can dilute this 'short trip' penalty by adding high MPG miles to the trip. In my case, 'doing laps' on a loop where the car achieves over 99.9 MPG. A marathon drive is not about 'getting somewhere' but a Prius 'bowling trophy' showing what can be accomplished on a well planned route. The rest is using a lazy man's protocol for high mileage, efficient driving. Bob Wilson
Your attempt to use a new definition for "short trip" is what's causing such a stir. SHORT TRIP = LESS THAN 10 MINUTES OF DRIVING It's that simple.
You're right. No argument from me about your definition. My definition of Long trip = Short Trip + extended distance. What this mean is we ALL pay the short trip penalty. It isn't something we could avoid no matter how far we drive on any given day. So my point was why some people would give false impression that short trips are bad. Well, short trips are bad, I agree to that but it is not something anyone could avoid. So it doesn't make sense to make comparison between short trips and long trips.
That's the rub... you can avoid them. We tell owners to run their errands while the engine is still warm. That will result in less gas being used than driving later after the system has cooled down. You plan to stop by the store on your way home or combine several trips into one. Also, don't forget that the plug-in model provides a solution to the brief drive penalty. So, there really is a difference that is being directly addressed by the upgrade. The thing we can agree on is how poor of an efficiency measure MPG is. It doesn't represent how much fuel is actually being consumed. It's just a end-result calculation with no reference to distance traveled.
Time to change your forum name, "troll" just rolls off the tongue, still need a little definition but wait...it's coming You have the option of request "a" thread be removed by the moderators, it's done when senselessly, downwards spiraling threads appear and they continue to sink.
This is inaccurate. Simply take a longer route to reach your destinations so all trips will be long enough that the 'cold-soak' warm-up costs disappear. Bob Wilson
Thanks for all the inputs especially the mature individuals who chose not to use words like "troll". There are still people who doesn't agree with my definition of long trip which is "short trip + extended distance" Bob Wilson you said "Simply take a longer route to reach your destinations", this is not avoiding short trip. You basically are saying add more miles to the "extended distance" which does not eliminate the "short trip" portion. Again thanks and I probably should stop here. Otherwise, I would be encouraging name calling.
The first 5 miles of a trip when the engine is cold uses more gas. So if you can combine your errands while the engine is warm you will use less gasoline that if each stop you made was originally from a cold start.
My definition of long trip = short trip + extended distance. That is true what you just said. You are combining many short trips and turn them into a long trip. You are putting other short trips to the "extended distance". However, you haven't eliminated the "short trip" part. That is the point I was trying to make in the beginning. Everyone of us has to pay the short trip penalty each day as soon as we get into our car in the morning. You could be smart to reduce the number of short trips but there is no such thing in not having to pay the short trip penalty.
Wrong = a word that applies to a person when he/she doesn't think like most people do. Christopher Columbus was "wrong" Galileo Galilei was "wrong" Nicoli Tesla was "wrong" about A/C current, at least Thomas Edison would have been happy if he was
If PiP's were cheaper, I would have gotten one. I rarely do short trips. I combine my short trips and turn them into a long trip. I can't charge a work. In a few years, maybe the battery price would come down low enough to make it worthwhile for me to buy one. Long trip = short trip + extended distance.
I got my PiP for $25k after the incentives. It is better equipped than the Three. I do a lot of short trips or very long trips. PiP is the ideal vehicle for it.
I didn't get that same deal when I was looking at the Prius. In fact, I thought the Prius was not even worth the premium. My wife said I could have gotten a gas-only for about $4000 less than the Prius that is similar in size. The only reason why I went with a Prius at the end was the fact that my son is heading off to college in a couple of years and we will be driving a lot visiting diff campuses and visiting him at college after he's in. I was also curious about hybrid cars. Personally, I prefer a gas car with a manual transmission. The Prius is not that fun to drive. With a gas car, I could take it to my local mechanic and get it fixed if something went wrong. He's a LOT cheaper than the Toyota dealers and he does good work since he owns the place. The grease monkeys at the dealers couldn't care less about my car, they don't even see my face. I'm just a number to them.
So far this tank of gas I have 1925 miles of short trips all combined into 999MPG in August I will make a long trip 250 miles and I will have my warm up combined in with this trip. Warm up should not hit me to hard. My definition of a long trip, Is short trips!
Are you stealing electricity from your neighbor? It's so typical that people who plug in never include the cost of electricity. If PiP was so great for everyone, it would be flying out of the showroom. There is demand for PiP but not a very strong one.
