I take a crack at it.... Long term, the Co2 probably be sequestered naturally in the planet. But that is a 1000+ yr time scale. The issue we face is short-term CO2 impact, and magnitude, and whether or not that is more important priority than the issue of running out of the resources in the first place. Or higher priority than the 30 or 40 other disaster scenarios we face. >>I see MP scooped me on the Gore article...tried to look but missed it in all the posts ...anyways wild, right?
I never said there is no solution to the problem. What I meant to said is the problem can't be solved because of people's selfishness. On top of it all, companies want to make money. They want the consumers keep buying even if it meant buying craps that people don't really need. Xmas will be coming in a couple of months, unless we have a bad economy, people will be out there buying and polluting. Oh I forget to mention, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett also want to save the world and modernize the third world countries. Sounds good right? Be prepare for more pollution coming in the future.
There is no question about vested interests using AGW scare tactics to further other agendas. But there is also no question that a whole lot of first rate (as well as second and third rate) science has been accomplished. Realize that massive CO2 dumping does have proven adverse effects, just like ever other massive pollution dump of waste products into our food, water, and air has had. (Can you name any unconstrained dumping of waste products that improved the standard of living?) Changing from a dump first, live with it approach to a don't pollute at all approach has made life universally better. The trick is in the methods of getting there. Progressing towards that standard needs to acknowledge that CO2 is a waste product, not the an inert substance with no physical, chemical, or biological effect. We need both good science and good government to get there. Extremism on either end is neither.
hmm Compare Side-by-Side If we look at combined the government says it is, or the accord at 31mpg, or focus at 34, or if you want to go crazy with the camry hybrid with still high north american content epa says 41mpg. YMMV. Now if you are driving 250k miles, that seems like quite a lot for a prius, especially at 15K miles a year, that means 17 years. Since the oldest prius is 16 years old we need more data to see how high it costs to repair. That is quite a bit older than most cars, and many crash. I do see a bunch of old civics and ford trucks, but not that many toyota high tech cars that old. If you are getting there from traveling a lot more miles a year and you are not a cabbie, you will be driving many more highway miles in which case the gap in mpg closes. Either way you are using a number that statisically is out there, just like the cnw used too low of a number. But lets try - 21,000 pounds of more fuel at 30 versus 50 mpg for 250,000 miles. YMMV, and there are more fuel efficient domestic cars. Even if that additional demand does not produce one more drop of domestic oil, will it come the distance from Japan? That is doubtful. But how much fuel will it take. A super tanker uses about 4 gallons per ton to come from the middle east and empty back. That would be about 40 gallons of bunker fuel that spews a lot for so2 and particulates out in the atmosphere. In which case, we decide we don't get any of that additional oil from the gulf, or Canada, or mexico, or Venezuela, that only OPEC oil will do, you may be right. But what is the point of all these poor assumptions? Why can't we just say that the prius would be greener for american consumers if they were produced in the USA? That doesn't seem to be too hard of a statement. We can also ask toyota, and nissan, and honda when they do export cars to use ultra low sulfur fuel on the transport boats, if they are going to claim they are green.
Lamborghini flies theirs over here on aircraft. I wonder if they are "greener" than toytoa in their choice of auto transport...
Less so2 and particulates to kill people, more ghg Here is plug-in cars discussing the heavily shipped sonic ev, versus leaf, volt, bmw i (parts shipped Japan to america to germany Long-Distance Shipping of Electric Car Parts Adds Environmental Impact | PluginCars.com
Seems like every cab in SF is a prius. I assume they each must run a millon miles and are bullet proof. Otherwise why so many Prius cabs? No idling cost I suppose but they must have longevity.
I'm not talking about doomsday, I'm talking about Global Warming which is not going to kill us all suddenly. If GW could kill us all suddenly, then maybe people would change their behavior. This GW talk has been going on since the 70's or maybe even earlier. Since then, Detroit made bigger cars, people live in bigger house, people spending more on craps they don't need, people burning more fossil fuel for recreational purpose, and etc. Reading some of the messages here in this forum, I found out that some people didn't buy Prii to save the environment, they got the Prii so that they could afford to drive further from home to find better jobs. I get a laugh when someone said they drive 150 miles a day on a Prius and we should all congratulate him/her for being environmental responsible.
If you you your car for work, its a different story. Whats really weird is environmental supporters who drive EVs and recycle ,yet fly on many recreational trips using many, many, many times the fuel of the average American. Then they preach about how bad xxx is .
Not very likely or Toyota would be crowing about it, and a prius would have made this list Million-Mile Club: The World's Longest-Lived Cars - Popular Mechanics The list has all the usual suspects, except for the bmw's. The motorcycle rider does deserve the award, the 325i, well I bet the prius can ride the dyno for a million miles too. Fun Fact: Vehicle Life Expectancy 1930 and Now | Rad Air Which is why I gave 200,000 as my estimate. Could a prius last more miles? Sure but the odds are better if its younger, that is if it got those 250,000 miles in its first 12 years. Trucks do last longer, this may have to do with ease of repair. The question is really how much will it cost to repair an old prius, and will the prius owner choose to get that 100 mpg model, instead of spending money on the repairs. To expect the average prius to stay on the road for 250,000 miles seems quite hopeful as that is almost 100,000 miles more than the average car.
Well, Arrhenius was one of the first to predict before 1900. But measuring CO2 was very difficult. Finally by late 1960's there was 10-yrs of CO2 increasing data from Mauna Loa and that set off the modern day concerns. I did a term paper on it in 1971 in high school, so old news by then. I said coasts would be flooded by 2000 and nuke power was the main hope.
You all are masters of Ad Hominem bull, but I try to avoid it .But I cant stand it any more . Your beloved Arrhenius was an IDIOT donkey . He was a racist purveyor of the consensus "science" of Eugenics. The father of global warming co2 theory was the racist influence to Hitler. The sad thing is that at the time ,Eugenics was considered to be the consensus science. Much like AGW is supposed to be the consensus today. Go figure. Every one agrees xxx are bad ,then lets exterminate them. Everyone agrees CO2 causes catastrophe ,lets tax prosperity to death.
Arrhenius was a genius, and a Nobel laurete. He was also a supporter of eugenics. From wikipedia: Surprised ? That is only because you are an ignoramus. Eugenics became a tool of abuse, racism, and murder, but to those scientists genetic improvement in humans was no different than the improvement in peas, corn, dogs and horses selective breeding had done through millennia. They would view modern day stem cell research and genetic engineering as natural developments of eugenics. Lastly, every time a person considers a mate in terms of offspring, eugenics on a personal scale is operating. Pre-natal testing is eugenics. --- Back to AGW, again from wikipedia:
