Rotterdam port welcomes first ship via the Arctic route

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Indeed the 'jig is up' but its on the phony AGW scam. Well over a hundred billion dollars have been wasted. Shameful...
     
  2. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Poor baby, how do you know it was from lack of ice and not a multitude of other reasons?

    The World Conservation Union (IUCN) estimates that there are between 20,000-25,000 polar bears in the world.

    This is up from an estimated 5-8,000 in the 60's.

    The Polar bear is over-hyped as is AGW.
     
  3. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    Because that summer (same as the next year) most of the ice has moved North from Svalbard Archipelago due to winds and currents making the summer almost free of pack ice on Spitsbergen coast. And the existence of ice is a common condition for survival for Polar Bear in this area.
    See another pics - two cubs abandoned by their mother who decided that she's not able to feed them...

    Bears were forced to feed on the rotten dead whale carcass due to the lack of ice and fresh delivery of seals.

    We reached less than 1000 kilometers from North Pole and still was no ice on Eastern longitudes.
     

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  4. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    ^ Correlation does not imply causation. So your explanation doesn't come anywhere near answering the question. You do realize Polar Bear population is up, eh?
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So what brought you that close to the pole?

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I saw this nissan leaf commercial that implied that polar bears would be saved by the leaf. Leaf sales are up this year, and now you say polar bear population is up too. I wonder if this is the causation;)

    More seriously pollution and hunter were definitely the chief cause of the polar bears falling population. Restrictions on these things seems to be tied to increased populations.

    Other things we have seen in video, are polar bears drowning from lack of ice. Like the friendly bear hug this is fake. The most famous picture was reported by the photographer as bears playing. Bears swim. Lack of ice means they kill fewer seals.

    Bears should have never been the poster child for climate change, coral reefs are much more effected. Some stats

    The truth about polar bears - Canadian Geographic



     
  7. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    My ship and itinerary :)
     
  8. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    Seems that various sources share different data:
    Help Wanted: Polar Bear Spotter on Svalbard Islands in Norway | TIME.com
    see below:

    State of the Environment Norway
    : Polar bear
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That was a shill article with no real data. It said "one of the only" growing populations. If you relink to my post, many populations have no decent count. Most of the ones with accurate counts are growing. The growth of polar bear population has to do with less hunting of them, and their food of seals, along with less artic pollution.
     
  10. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    . I did. For me it is still not firmly stated of the Polar Bear future. Perhaps I have to read it again. In addition I have also my own experience and what I saw with my own eyes - at least in the East of Greenland populations. We were searching for ice hours and hours as the icebreaking was in our programme to make happy the on-board crowd with all of their cameras. Okay - sometimes we succeeded. See below: BTW - the remains of the dead whale are the bones of the carcass made one year earlier - attached previously ;) The bears are still looking for something eatable under water (I had recorded it also)

    P1070551.JPG
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <Ahem>
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    ?
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I'm not telling you to believe me instead of your own lieing eyes, but I can give you an explanation of what you are seeing.

    Polar bears were pushed to the brink of extinction in the 1970s, it is difficult to recover from the over hunting, hunting of your food, and pollution. Pollution goes on, although it is different. This along with climate change is hurting the recovery, but it was not climate change that pushed them to the brink of extinction, and they are doing much better today than they were even a decade ago. The use of false descriptions of polar bears at play, as polar bears starving to death, is one of those awful lies that people seem to continue to believe despite the recovered populations.

    There are 19 polar bear populations, and like any other group with small numbers, the genetic stock and food sources are not equal amoung them. Some groups are doing well, others are doing poorly. So while as a group polar bears are doing well some populations (7 of the 19) are in decline. These declining populations may never recover. Reducing ghg starting today is unlikely to change that. I do not know which of these groups you are personally observing, but it may be one of these populations in decline.
     
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  14. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    Barents Sea population. But now it confuses me again as I read one source stating contrary to another. I have seen what I described above, besides - I talked to many people from Spitsbergen - and usually they know what are they talking about. Then I read another article stating that this particular population is doing well. No choice - I have to come back to the North and start counting them :) The only problem is that my previous ship is no more in operations, getting rusty at the berth in Canary Islands since more than 2.5 years :/
    Anyway - I think I drifted far away from the main topic. Sorry for that.
     
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  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Your region is a tough one. They did not do an accurate count until 2004, then decided to change there calculations on the count in 2009 (estimation range based on how much of the land and sea surveyed). The population should be 1900-3600. I would not trust anyone that claims they have greatly increased or decreased in the last decades since no one was accurately counting. You may be right they are declining,but you or someone else must do another count next yr.
     
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  16. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Scientist only do a fly over count. If you want a on the ground count, talk to the Inuit. It's probably somewhere in between but bottom line is that the polar bear population is increasing. Furthermore, the harp seal population is at it's highest level in 30 years and stands at 7.3 million, over 3 times what it was during the 70's. Plenty of food for the bears.
     
  17. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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    No Inuits on the East :(
    Anyway - I see some good news from both posts above. Glory to Polar Bear (from former Polar Star Commander) :D !!
     

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  18. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    Rat's! I'll bet the east still has people on the ground you can ask!
     
  19. Les_PL

    Les_PL Active Member

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  20. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    ^ Jumping to conclusions? Polar bear life span is on average 15-18 years. This bear may have just died of old age. As to your polar bear dens, these "scientist" have looked at one small area but jumped to one big conclusion without factual data or sufficient analyst to determine the reason. Once again "Correlation does not equal Causation"