Is there someway to charge the traction battery without taking it out ?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by A-Prius Owner, Jun 24, 2013.

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  1. A-Prius Owner

    A-Prius Owner Junior Member

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    Yesterday I couldn't start my Prius gen 1 car (due to undercharged traction battery), although it almost started. I have no doubt that I can charge it using a Variac but it seems ridiculous to have to remove it from the car then dismantle it just to charge it. If there is no way to charge it without taking it out then I would like to do some kind of MOD that would allow me to do that so the next time this happens it will be easier to charge. One idea I have is to hot wire the HV relay after disconecting the HV cables and use those connections to connect to the Variac charger. Has anyone done this ?
     
    #1 A-Prius Owner, Jun 24, 2013
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    #2 2k1Toaster, Jun 24, 2013
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  3. A-Prius Owner

    A-Prius Owner Junior Member

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    Thanks 2K1Toaster thats exactly what I needed.
     
    #3 A-Prius Owner, Jun 24, 2013
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Great information, thanks! Now if we could have anybody who's been in the battery try to identify the function of the middle, green-white wire at the charging plug....

    It stops cranking at 20% SoC, huh? Phew, I got really close to that the time my ICE didn't start. That should help me remember to do a force-charge in the future before beginning ICE work.

    -Chap
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Jun 25, 2013
  5. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    The outer wires on the plug are direct battery voltage ~300V. Check polarity with multimeter. IIRC The reddish one is negative and the blackish one is positive....which makes no sense so that's why you should test.
    Not sure what the middle wire is, perhaps a ground? I never use it.

    I have the proper mating connector and pins for the Gen1 charge connector if you want to make up your own proper charger harness. $15 delivered in USA. Pmail me if interested.
     
    #5 3prongpaul, Jul 3, 2013
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I hate to ask, are they hot all the time?

    I had the impression the battery controller had to enable the relays but I really hadn't looked at that connector. My usual attitude is if there is no safety cover, there is no voltage.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Jul 4, 2013
  7. MSAGRO

    MSAGRO 2010 Prius Five with Advanced Technology Package

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    Was originally that "plug to nowhere" was for the purpose of Prii sitting for long time in the Dealers new car parking lot and when the HV battery wound down, they would re-charge through that port?
     
    #7 MSAGRO, Jul 4, 2013
  8. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    The PTN connects to the battery side of the main relays. The "plug to nowhere" is hot whenever the main orange safe disconnect is plugged in.

    It is a little tricky to get access to the PTN, a cover holds it in with a round orange push-pin thing that must be first rotated and removed (same type as the one covering the HV cables behind the rear seatback). They designed the round orange pin to be "spun" using the end of the main orange safety plug (forcing you to turn off power), but other tools will work.

    The procedure is remove main orange plug, use it to remove round pin and release the PTN, hook up your charging equipment (since power is off now), then re-insert main orange plug to allow charging.
     
    #8 3prongpaul, Jul 4, 2013
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  9. A-Prius Owner

    A-Prius Owner Junior Member

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    I was able to charge the traction battery and start the car but now the generator function starts cycling on and off normaly but often (about once every minute) for any energy usesage such as runing the airconditioner, which is much more often than it did before. At the same time the LCD display alternates showing the battery at 3/4 and 1/4 charge. Any ideas about what might be the problem would be appreciated. Also the car seems to drive alright but I won't know until I can take it out on the road (temporarily I can't take it out on the road because of a preexisting problem with the brakes).
     
    #9 A-Prius Owner, Jul 15, 2013
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yes but the answers are hidden in the control computers that operate the car. Time to get a Prius-aware, OBD scanner.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Jul 15, 2013
  11. yotatoter

    yotatoter Member

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    Sounds like one or more of your battery modules are weak or going bad..It will cause your battery level to fluctuate from low to full fairly quick..
     
    #11 yotatoter, Jul 15, 2013
  12. A-Prius Owner

    A-Prius Owner Junior Member

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    Question, is there a safe amperage to indefinitely float charge the Prius GEN 1 battery at ?
    In this discussion; On board Equalizing Charge | PriusChat
    post 3, paragraph 5 it says it's safe to charge it for at least two hours at a 325 mAh (I think "mAh" was a type-o error and it should be "MA"?) rate after using the Prius to forcing a full charge (using the Prius forse charging technique)
    My hope is if the modules are poorly balanced then by leaving it on a charge for about 12-24 hours at a 200 MA rate that will charge all the cells to the same voltage. Also then to do a full equalized charge would entail doing that 4 more times (charge and discharge cycles called wear leveling). I wouldn't use the Prius because it's charge & discharge amp rate is too extreme, also to prevent reversing charging any cells during a discharge I would stop discharging at 260-230 volts. 260 volts for the first discharge, about 250 volts 2nd discharge and ect.
     
    #12 A-Prius Owner, Jul 25, 2013
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    No, mA is the correct abbreviation.

    m stands for milli or x/1000
    M stands for mega or 1,000,000 x
    A stands for Ampere and is correctly capitalized since this is the name of the person that the unit of electrical current flow is named after
    h stands for hour and in the context of "two hours at a 325 mAh" is not needed

    I think you should be very cautious about the idea of charging at 0.2A for such a long period of time especially after the Prius has already force-charged the battery. Over 24 hours, this is 4.8 Ah. The battery capacity when new is only 6.5 Ah so you will overcharge and therefore overheat the battery modules, which may expand and explode.

    If the car is operational so that the battery can be force-charged, I see no point in an auxiliary charge after this is done - unless you want to destroy the battery.

    I would also like to discourage the concept of force-charging the battery without good reason as this practice overheats the transaxle.
     
    #13 Patrick Wong, Jul 25, 2013
  14. A-Prius Owner

    A-Prius Owner Junior Member

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    Thanks Patrick it was intended to be milliamps 200 mA not 200 MA. Fortunately I had read something about the tendency of Prius batteries to explode when overcharged so I was careful to not let that happen when I initialy charged it.
    I use to have a Nimh powered electric scooter (now upgraded to lithium) and believe it or not you could safely trickle charge it at .3 amp after it was fully charged but it's battery cells were vented.
     
    #14 A-Prius Owner, Jul 25, 2013
  15. royfrontenac

    royfrontenac Active Member

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    Hi this is Roy from Canada - please contact me so I can buy the connector if you still have some.
     
    #15 royfrontenac, Feb 10, 2014
  16. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Just a warning.
    Sometimes the fuse related to this connector can blow, even if charging at a low rate. Not good.
    In which case then you'll need to open up the battery case and charge the pack. Be careful!
     
    #16 ericbecky, Feb 10, 2014
  17. royfrontenac

    royfrontenac Active Member

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    Hi this is Roy from canada, a nnew member. Chap directed me to this post as I need the mating connector and pins you describe above. Can you please contact me if you still have them. Thanks Roy
     
    #17 royfrontenac, Feb 10, 2014
  18. royfrontenac

    royfrontenac Active Member

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    Hi this is Roy-- Thanks for the warning-what is the fuse size?
     
    #18 royfrontenac, Feb 10, 2014
  19. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I'm not sure, but it is higher than what you would normally use for trickle charge (for example 325milliamps).
    But even though it's higher it still may sometimes blow for whatever reason.

    What amperage are you thinking about charging at?
     
    #19 ericbecky, Feb 10, 2014
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    #20 bwilson4web, Feb 10, 2014
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