Opening engine after knocking!!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by nedim, Nov 16, 2014.

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  1. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    you should look up some youtube videos on the traction battery
     
    #41 tankyuong, Dec 15, 2014
  2. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    There aren't that many for Gen3. Plus they are wrong. The end connectors leading to the front of the car will show voltage only if the car is in READY mode( which I can not enter). Rob pointed that in the previous post.
     
    #42 nedim, Dec 16, 2014
  3. kc410

    kc410 Active Member

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    Yes, you are measuring the battery voltage correctly. An easier way to do the same thing is to have the service plug connected & backprobe the two red connectors from the battery. The Negative battery terminal is shown being backprobed in this pic, the Positive is shown in the other pic.

    213V is good. The Prius will not connect the HV battery to the vehicle until it thinks everything is ready. Only then will operate the SMRs (System Main Relays) that actually connect the HV battery to the rest of the Prius.
     
    #43 kc410, Dec 16, 2014
  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Somethings not right here. This car should be throwing every nag in the book.

    When the engine is unable to start it throws every dtc it has. Really unhappy. Plus in this circumstance you should be in master caution alarm also which will be a bunch more codes. The fact that its only throwing the lonely Controller Network nag only confirms this.
    Basicly the car's Lan is not communicating and is unable to communicate with all the other ECU's. The car will not start in this mode.

    My guess would be you have not plugged in a connector most likely around the Inverter. There's many connectors along the back of the Inverter. Or some wiring was damaged with the engine swap. Tear into any harness's with the engine swap? Nicked or squished a wire? What's still not connected?

    My recommendation to anyone about to do this kind of work is base this entire installation on a run list. I do alot of fairly large electronic integration and without a run list it would be a disaster.

    Buy a wire labeler. A good one. Every plug that gets disconnected gets a new label and that info goes on a run list. Example of run list info for a particular plug::

    #1-M1-Connector-Male-4 Pin- Mass Air Flow Meter.

    #1 is your run list number. That's your number position on the run list. The M1 is Toyota's part position number of that connector in the schematic. Comes off the print itself. You should buy the "Position of Parts" section on tech.info.com

    That #1 is listed as line #1 and so forth on your run list. Its labeled #1 on the new label you put on the wire. Upon re-installation when its plugged back in its checked off the run list line of that connector. I count almost 100 connectors in the engine bay alone.
    Without a run list its almost guaranteed you will miss one upon re-installation. If you miss one you sure as hell won't know which one.
    Which makes you do a house to house plug search if something like this results and gets you into places you shouldn't even be into like interrogating inside the HV battery box.
    That's a very dangerous place. Only peeps with alot of electronic chops should be in there.
    There's a shitload of energy in that box.

    No denigration to the OP who has taken on a very big job and has done a very good job so far but I hope this helps any future engine swapper.

    Also since you have a volt meter set it up so its connected to the battery jump points under the hood and is laying on the windshield so when you are in the car trying to boot it you can see the meter through the windshield. See how deep the 12 v dips when you attempt to boot or if it dips at all. Analog meters are great for this as you can see the needle move better than a digital meter resolution. Its the only reason I have one lol.

    That damn 12 volt should always be in your mind no matter what your doing on this car.
     
    #44 edthefox5, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
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  5. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Thanks for your time writing your suggestions. Yes It is a good practice to label everything( which I did) Like I said on my previous post I double check all the wires and connectors. I am 99% positive that I did not damage anything.

    Right now I am uploading 2 videos on youtube do describe better my problem.
    One of the videos shows the issue I am having. As soon as I open the door the car starts beeping doesn't matter if I press the brake or just enter ACC mode I get the same message and blinking "gears".

    You are saying that the car is not throwing other DTC because the U0293 is kind of master thing and thats why It can't display anything else. I have to show a proof that this is not the case. In the video you can see that just disconnecting the sensor from the air intake will throw 2 extra codes putting it back and clearing it we are back only to U0293.

    The other video shows all the wires and connectors that go to the inverter. One comes from traction battery, other goes to MG1, other goes to MG2 and there is one on the side that goes to the AC compressor. All those orange cables are connected to terminals in the inverter by bolts. The only other connector on the inverter is the one on the left front side where part of the wires come from the main ECU next to the fuse box and the others come from somewhere behind the fuse box( i guees battery ECU gea r knob and etc.) I haven't really touched any thing there because it is under the brake fluid tank and ABS controller.


    I am glad that the battery is in good health at least otherwise it will be pain to charge that thing..
    So Yes it can be a damage harness but I hope that is not the case because I can't really check unless I brake apart the whole thing( almost).

    I just hope it is a code that only Techstream can reset and that will fix my issue. Scan gauge can't clear it. I googled somewhere that Prius gen one had the same code and it can be cleared only with techstream.

     
    #45 nedim, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    No Im not saying that code is a not allowing anything else to show. I'm saying I suspect that somethings wrong with the communication bus in the car becasue it should be showing alot of codes.....but Your showing a ScanGauge. Has that been updated ($25) to an XGauge by sending it in for an upgrade? If not the ScanGauge without an upgrade will not read Hybrid Codes.

    For some reason I thought you already had a Techstream and was interrogating the car with it..

    Do you have the Master Caution Red Triangle with exclamation point on the dash?

    And weird beeping is almost always something going on with the 12 volt battery. Whats it show hooked to the jump points when you attempt a boot up.
    Whats the voltage in those 2 states. One state is siting there and the other state is how low does it dip when you attempt to start the car.
     
    #46 edthefox5, Dec 16, 2014
  7. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Yes my scangauge has the most recent version and yes it does read hybrid codes.

    I do not have a red triangle I do have a yellow one.

    I am waiting for the techstream.

    Voltage is the way it should be because it is from my other 2010 identical prius which I drive every day.

    I understand what you are trying to say but it is not as simple as that. Once I open the car it enters in that "safety mode" or whatever we call it and it won't respond to a push of a button. That mode isolates the car. But I will try that whenever I get a chance.

    And yes in the video I was trying to show that if I disconnect bunch of sensors they will show up on the scan gauge which tells me there is communication.
     
    #47 nedim, Dec 17, 2014
  8. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    id say its time for the dealership to mess with it
     
    #48 tankyuong, Dec 17, 2014
  9. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Are you sure the "P Lock Malfunction" warning on the dash isn't the real culprit? My understanding is this can be related to a real problem engaging the parking pawl, or a symptom of a low 12V supply. What is your 12V reading, both parked and when in this trouble mode? The fact that its doing this before you even hit the power button seems suspicious. I thought the diagnostics and communication to the HV ECU only happened on power up? I believe this "P lock malfunction" mode will keep the car from going ready or shifting into gear, I wonder if its locking out the HV system resulting in your error code? Or again, it could all be a low 12V causing both the com failure and "P lock" warning. Make sure you check the 12V under load, and preferably at the front end. Even if the battery is good, you could have a short somewhere dragging the voltage down when it tries to boot? Without the HV battery connecting, there's also no way for the dc:dc converter to recharge the 12V battery. Are you using something to keep the 12V topped up while you're doing this work?

    If the 12V is good, I might double check the wiring to the parking pawl servo and gear selector?

    It will be very interesting to see if techstream sheds any more light on things once you get your mini-VCI. I'd also highly recommend subscribing to TIS to get at the real service manuals if you haven't already. TIS and techstream are really meant to work together, and the debug procedures in TIS will often assume you have techstream to set/monitor various states and readings.

    Rob
     
    #49 miscrms, Dec 17, 2014
  10. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    #50 Former Member 68813, Dec 17, 2014
  11. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Thanks a lot. that is no my case.
     
    #51 nedim, Dec 17, 2014
  12. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    It was a blown fuse for IGCT. I checked the relay by itself but did not check the 30A fuse.

    Checked compression all 4 cylinders are at 150psi.

    In maintenance mode and 2500rpm the highest reading for the coolant was at 95C and It opened the thermostat and dropped to 89C.

    Can't tell the coolant temp for the inverter will check that with techstream later this week.

    A lot of white smoke came first from the tailpipe after running for 20 minutes it is less than it was. This is because there was a lot smoke from the previous engine and the whole exhaust system is still filled with it.

    Battery was at 60% as I left it more than 2 months ago. Aux battery was charged a week ago before starting the car it was reading at 11.2.

    I am saying all this for future reference.

     
    #52 nedim, Dec 17, 2014
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  13. A617

    A617 Member

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    Congrats! But I wonder what caused the IGCT fuse to blow?
     
    #53 A617, Dec 18, 2014
  14. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    No idea. I remember trying to shift to neutral when I connected the engine with the transaxle and it worked but there was almost nothing hooked up. That was just a test for me to see if everything is in place but that might be the thing that blew this fuse. After that I assembled everything and got the U0293.

    MY BIGGEST MISTAKE ON THE PROJECT WAS READING HAYNES MANUAL THAT SAID ENGINE AND TRANSAXLE HAVE TO COME OUT FROM THE CAR TOGETHER AND THEN SEPARATED.
    It looked super obvious to me that it should come out without doing it that way.

    So I spent 5 hours trying to remove the drive axles from the trany, had to change the o-ring sealants, ripped LH inner cv boot and messed up an axle nut. But never removed the trany. So this was the hardest part from the project, something that was super unnecessary.
     
    #54 nedim, Dec 18, 2014
  15. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    What is IGCT?
     
    #55 Former Member 68813, Dec 18, 2014
  16. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Very cool, glad you found it!

    My guess would be that IGCT stands for Ignition Contactor? The IGCT relay also seems to be referred to as the Integration Relay. There are a number of IG relays / fuses that power up on different ignition conditions (ACC Mode, IG On mode, etc) to supply 12V to different circuits. IGCT seems to be the one that comes up in ready mode to engage the HV system (closing the contactor? / "integrating" the HV system?).

    Its mentioned in a couple places here (Gen 2): http://www.selidori.com/tech/00000-04999/258-HwEku.pdf

    Rob
     
    #56 miscrms, Dec 18, 2014
  17. A617

    A617 Member

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    Well you just proof that you dont need a techstream or dealers to replace an engine in a 3rd gen prius, and did i see that milage right, 190k miles?
     
    #57 A617, Dec 18, 2014
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  18. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Yes it is 198k with 25k engine now.

    Dealer quoted me at $7800 + tax for the same engine.

    All you need is patience 10mm, 12mm and a 14mm socket :)

    Btw. Did it all by myself. I can do it again for less than two work days
     
    #58 nedim, Dec 18, 2014
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  19. nedim

    nedim Junior Member

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    Okay finally everything is installed on the car now it looks normal. Couple of questions again.
    What should be the temp on my inverter coolant sensor?
    What should be the temp on my HVB?

    IMG_20141218_213539223.jpg
     
    #59 nedim, Dec 19, 2014
  20. kc410

    kc410 Active Member

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    I just got back from about an hour of running around:
    Outside Temp: 66°
    Inverter Coolant: 100.4°
    HVB= high voltage battery
    TB (Traction Battery) Intake: 76.6°
    TB1: 84.9
    TB2: 90.0
    TB3: 83.7
     
    #60 kc410, Dec 19, 2014
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