Japan may become the first hydrogen economy

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, Aug 2, 2014.

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  1. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    A large portion of the electricity in the US was generated in Canada.
     
    #21 GregP507, Jan 15, 2015
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I wasn't aware of that, but wow in 2012 just under 48,000 Gwh net imports between Canada and Mexico. No one is worried about these imports though ;-) EIA says most are hydro electric power so why not.

    It is great that opec oil imports in the US are dropping, but maybe an oil tax will keep the from rising again ;-) Cut the payroll tax with the cash, and it would be popular right now. I don't see any reason for the US to push hydrogen.
     
    #22 austingreen, Jan 15, 2015
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I cannot see the economic case for coal over renewables except as a time shifter. And even then, the time shift problem may require some fossil fuel back-up but is largely dealt with by grid infrastructure, renewable diversity, and renewable storage strategies.

    I read enough Amory Lovins to know that will be his recommendation. Any other approach just stinks of special interests getting in the way of rational planning.
     
    #23 SageBrush, Jan 15, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  4. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #24 Sergiospl, Jan 16, 2015
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The experiment begins. Understand everyone deserves a chance to 'run the experiment.' The results of any experiment remains an open question. Soon enough, we will know.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #25 bwilson4web, Jan 17, 2015
  6. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #26 Sergiospl, Jan 17, 2015
  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I don't know much about Japanese gov't or their politics but this photo op reminds me of the Volt/Obama PR event that was used as ammunition by the opposite party. Will the Mirai become a political football? My limited understanding of their system says "no", gov't and big corporations are too much in bed together.
     
    #27 fotomoto, Jan 17, 2015
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    We aren't going to know the results of the Japanese experiment for at least 15 years. You watch the video, and it is a little sad.

    In Japan, it is pretty clear that the Abe government does many things for toyota, as it is one of the few things that work in the economy.

    The video made clear, this thing is going to need a lot of help from the government, but at least for now the Japanese government is behind fuel cells for electricity and fuel cells for transportation.

    You look at the car, which is subidized probably more than the best selling in Japan, aqua sells for now. This is just a tiny test. With enough government cash there may be technical breakthroughs, so a mirai or clarity in 2025 (2 generations) may be much less expensive to produce, and oil much harder to come bay. Japan is playing the long game, but they have not had many victories with MITI/METI since the prius.

    [​IMG]
     
    #28 austingreen, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
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