Understanding science

Well this is a challenge:

I don't know but when I saw the cyclical pattern in sea level and length of day, it really made me wonder. I've started to look at phase angle, sea level and length of day, but it makes sense to add the Keeling curve. Then comes the fun part, the math model.

BTW, I appreciate the 'suicidal plant' description of carboniferous plants bringing on the subsequent ice ages. Good to know ours is not the only species capable of not paying attention to 'our success.' <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

eyes glazing over...

 

Well I'll take "egghead" but it really is hard to change a worldview. It won't be the first time I've described what I'm doing or planning to do only to see a complete lack of understanding in the eyes of others, the Cassandra effect. Often it just makes more sense to quietly do the work and explain the results later.

Bob Wilson

 

amen, this is exactly what i was posting about lately.

right here again. while the PC crowd is not stupid, it has the usual share of members who prove that the loudest mouth is not the best informed.

 

most countries run by the intelligencia are subject to popular overthrow. their mistake is usually lording it over the 'little people', instead of helping them.

 

In my experience, many might say that, but few actually accept it when given.

 

you may be right, i have no experience in those countries, just what i've read. however, in the climate debate, there's nothing to give or accept. you either buy in, or you don't. unfortunately, imo, most don't.

 

Debating with natural laws is not likely to end well:


Bob Wilson

 

agreed. the end is the end. we just can't see it. yet.

 

anyone ever see any poll numbers, regarding american citizens, what percent think climate change is real, and something they can help change on a personal behavior level, and through political pressure on larger entities?

 

Be sure and poll them about the Prius too.

Bob Wilson

 

fear mongering indeed. OMG, whooping 3 m/1000 years. if (big if) the short term trend continues. drop in the ocean compared to the big picture. essentially, ocean level didn't move much through the whole holocene, now included.

 

Although we can measure sea level with the Jason series of satellites, it turns out there are regional effects too:
Sea Level Trends - NOAA Tides and Currents

Notice some of those upward arrows are in the middle of the ocean. Not a problem if a mountainous island but some are a little flatter:
Low-lying Pacific island nation of Kiribati considers building 'floating platforms' - Telegraph

Low-lying Pacific island nation of Kiribati considers building 'floating platforms'

It is the stuff of science fiction films and futuristic novels, but the realities of climate change have forced the government in the low-lying Pacific archipelago of Kiribati to consider building "floating islands" for its citizens to live on as rising sea levels threaten to engulf the nation. ​

This falls under "magnified minority" and "jumping to conclusions." The magnified minority is to change the scale and indicate it doesn't matter. The scale is the scale and within a human life time, say 80 years:

• 3.2 mm/yr * 80 = 256.0 mm, ~10 inches

But as the NOAA chart shows, the rate is not constant at every point:

Of course this assumes the rate won't go faster. Prior to the satellite records, the commonly accepted rate was lower. All available measurements indicate the rate has been going up . . . along with CO{2} metrics.

The second problem is "jumping to conclusions" that the paleorecord won't change. That is OK if the modern records didn't show that to be inaccurate. Instead of taking thousands of years to change, we're seeing rates of change about an order of magnitude faster and going faster. It is CO{2} that continues to increase and accelerate global warming which has regional effects . . . like commercial ships taking the Arctic short-cut in the summer sailing season.

Bob Wilson

 

American Opinions on Global Warming: A Yale/Gallup/Clearvision Poll | Yale Project on Climate Change Communication

71% think climate change is real, 69% agree with the consensus that that it is caused primarily or at least half by human activities, but only 15% worry about it a great deal. In the US the billionaire that says he worries about it a great deal, has made the single issue keystone pipeline, something scientists say blocking will not reduce climate change 67% of americans are in favor of keystone (january poll) while only 11% oppose. So from the polls its not that the american public doesn't agree with the scientific consensus, its that they don't agree with the solutions the politicians are proposing. I haven't seen a poll about the clean power plan, but businesses seem to like it.

 

or with personal responsibility.

 

That is fairly clear from the most recent poll. In 2004 a large majority thought it was a major problem, but now only 15%, and its a problem for other species and people that live far away not for them. That is why they want the government to act, but they aren't going to change if no one else does.

 

Heres a book ranking #2,060 amongst all other books .
Which quotes scientists giving their opinion of disgrace for AGW "science" icon Micheal Mann.
Seems like the fake 97% consensus is getting a little testy about being included in the 97% consensus lie.
Google "A Disgrace To The Profession" by Steyn.

Dont know why I cant link to Amazon on Priuschat but you may want to fix that.You are losing money.