2017 Prius Prime (Plug-in Hybrid) Full Product Information & Technical Docs (PDF)

Sorry, bisco, just now saw you were a PiP owner. This app doesn't show avatars or user info in-thread.

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no problem. but there are at least 14 situations where pip will fire the engine. toyota stated that they built prime to have pure ev as people requested. i can't find details, as there are too many places to look, but iirc,
1) you can floor it without firing the ice.
2) i'm sure they'll set up heat differently, now that they have an electric driven heat pump.
3) i think they went to 200 miles of no gas use before ice fires.
4) ev speed has been increased to 86 mph?
5) not sure at what temp and speed scenario prime will fire ice.
6) will be interesting to see how they go downhill with a full pack.

 

The Prime can stay in Ev to 100% pedal deflection and it has a heat pump that allows it to heat the car down to -10C/14F without running the engine.

 

How often would a driver reach 100% usable capacity for PiP like that from a hill?

 

I live at the top of a hill and the charger timer (and my life for that matter) isn't predictable enough to allow me to leave the top percentages of usable range "uncharged", so I basically start every drive in Neutral as it is now.
When not-fully-charged, I gain about 1 km (0.62 miles) of range from my house to the bottom of the hill.

 

For me, probably a lot. We have quite a few decents around here that exceed 2,500 feet, and one I just took that was 6,500 feet.

 

Can you descend for that long without engaging the ICE due to "hard charging"? I have a hill close by (not the one I live on) that's steep enough that I have to use the brakes to stay within the speed limit.
After about 30 seconds of this braking (utilizing some 50-75% of the CHG-bar in the HSI), the range stops adding up, I can feel the regenerative braking force receding as the car hesitates for a split second and then the ICE turns on. This happens when the range ISN'T close to full.

 

I don't have a PIP or a Prime, but on my G2, I use B mode almost the entire way down and just a third of the way results in a full battery even in B mode. I never ride the brakes.

 

This means that your engine is probably at normal operating temperatures before you hit the hill anyway. The thing with a PiP is that the gasoline engine is COLD as you drive it around within EV range (10-15 miles). COLD AS BALLS. And Toyota don't wanna start/stop/start/stop an ice cold engine.
The issue for most PiP owners is therefore by all means making sure that the gas engine stays off while driving it around, because as soon as it turns on, the car is programmed to not turn it off again until it's reached normal operating temperatures. So when the gasoline engine turns on without the EV range being depleted (like while descending a hill with full battery, or descending a too steep hill for too long which overheats the charging system/batteries), you're essentially wasting gasoline that didn't have to be wasted.

Oh, and if you're in full EV mode in a PiP, the B-gear position simply increases regenerative braking when you lift of the throttle (whereas the standard Prius spins the ICE to waste surplus energy). In the PiP on full EV mode, there's no real difference between B-gear and braking with your brake pedal apart from brake lights coming on with the latter option.

As soon as the ICE turns on, the PiP operates like any other standard Prius, though.

 

Why would it stay on until full warm? My 2004 doesn't do that. Once it's through its 30 second warmup period, I can put it into Ev mode either by feathering the throttle below 41mph or by using my Ev kit to force the car into Ev mode. It'll stay there until I either exceed 34mph or ask for too much power, or until the battery reaches 2 bars.

 

No idea if it's "full warm" (90'C/195'F) or whatever, but it stays on for 3-4 minutes of driving before shutting off. Our differences might be due to differences between the 1NZ and the 2ZR engines, or something else. I have no idea.
It's really silly though. If I forget to put it in Neutral as I coast/brake downhill from my house with a fully charged battery and the ICE fires up, I usually pull over at the bottom of the hill, shut the car off and on again, and continue in EV mode. You'd think it could just use the friction brakes and not bother with the ICE, but Toyota in their infinite wisdom "knew better"... Which I HOPE they will have fixed with the new Prime.

My first winter with the PiP is drawing near (I live in Norway....) and I'm getting the feeling I'm gonna have to do some smart mods to stay off the gasoline when the snow starts falling.

 

i drove 14.9 miles on ev with a cold engine in my pip yesterday. as i was pulling into the parking space, the engine fired. at 66 degrees ambient, it took 4 minutes to warm up and shut down on its own.

 

@Nougatti You are raising two separate issues:

Engine starts on descents due to battery/electronics temperature, battery is not full.
I think Toyota addressed this (at least improved it) in the new PHV. Battery output power is improved 83% and we can assume 'input power' i.e. rate of accepting charge is vastly improved as well. Electronics cooling is also improved according to the publications.

Engine starts on descent to slow the car and prevent excess charge, battery full.
BEVs have no options here but to shut regeneration and use the friction brakes. PHEVs have another option. You would like the Prius PHV to take the BEVs route but there may be some other consideration not to take it, one that comes to my mind is reducing brakes effectiveness with danger of loosing them altogether on long descents.
My guess: the route taken for the PiP is taken with the new PHV - Engine braking.

 

You let it run through that warm up cycle? Thinking to avoid possible engine knock at next start up?

 

Without a load on the engine (parked instead of providing power), it does take longer.

Unlike traditional vehicles, Prius housekeeping handles cycling like that. So, no there's no concern shutting off at any time.

 

exactly. i never shut it off if it's running. regarding post #75 above, we're not so naive, are we?

 

I got the shake at start up recently, on my regular Prius:

I know I have about 15 seconds (max) of guaranteed EV after starting, was trying to stay within that window while shuffling the car from garage to street.

I pushed it too far, car started for a couple of seconds, I shut it down. Next morning got the shake.

I keep thinking of a doting parent dropping off a "sensitive" kid at daycare: "Now remember, if little Johnny starts his engine, let him run, or he'll be cranky the next...".

 

sounds like we need new 'housekeepers'.

 

That's the term the Toyota engineers use. We got it when asking about shutting off mid-warmup with the Classic model, since it often started the engine upon shifting into park.

 

Except when the PiP is cold and just fired up the ICE.

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