Another alignment thread...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by TigerGonzalez, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. TigerGonzalez

    TigerGonzalez New Member

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    Hello all!

    I'm hoping someone can help me clarify some things as I've never had a car with alignment issues before.

    I took my 08 Prius in today to get an alignment (after getting new rear tires AGAIN yesterday and being told I was going through rear right tires so quickly because of an alignment issue). They were able to align my front tires, but said they couldn't align my rear because my car doesn't have alignment shims.

    Here are the before and after alignment numbers:

    Front caster before: left 2.7, right 3.4
    After: left 2.6, right 3.4

    Front camber before: left -0.2, right -0.7
    After: left -0.2, right -0.7

    Front toe before: left -0.05, right 0.00, total -0.05
    After: left -0.10, right 0.00, total -0.10

    Rear camber before: left -0.3, right -0.6
    After: left -0.3, right -0.5

    Rear toe before: left 0.25, right -0.15, total 0.10
    After: left 0.20, right -0.15, total 0.05

    Thrust Angle before & after: -0.2

    SAI before & after: left 11.7, right 12.5

    Included Angle before & after: left 11.5, right 11.8

    Toe Out On Turns before & after: left 1.4, right 1.7

    Setback before: front -0.2, rear -0.1
    After: front 0.1, rear 0.0

    My first main question: maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but there isn't much of a difference before and after the front alignment. Was it done correctly?

    Follow up question: is it normal for the rear alignment to change once the front alignment has been done, as seen here?

    My second main question: is $365 a fair price for both alignment shims and labor? I've been quoted right around that price twice. Once by a local mechanic (the same one who did the front alignment) and again at Firestone. I have not called anyone else yet.

    Follow up question: is this project possible to do yourself if you've never done more than battery swaps and oil changes? I have a jack, tools, and weekends off.

    Thanks so much for any help!
     
    #1 TigerGonzalez, Apr 18, 2017
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it sounds like you have the dreaded rear ligament issue, even though it is fixed. but there are threads here on how to fix the rear alignment, i suggest researching them. how miles are you getting out of the right rear tire?
     
    #2 bisco, Apr 18, 2017
  3. TigerGonzalez

    TigerGonzalez New Member

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    Thank you for the questions! When you say it is fixed, are you basing that on the "after" alignment numbers provided?

    Like I said, I don't have any experience with car alignment issues, can you tell by looking at these before and after numbers if my front alignment was done correctly? I'm always worried about getting ripped off.

    I've seen some of the other rear alignment threads, but I had some additional questions I wanted clarification on, and also to be told straight up if I could install shims myself with hardly any background in working on cars. I've only ever changed headlight, changed oil, and swapped batteries.

    I wish I could tell you how many miles I'm getting from the right rear tire. I don't know how to obtain that information.
     
    #3 TigerGonzalez, Apr 19, 2017
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm just assuming that the front is fine, if you're not getting any uneven wear.
     
    #4 bisco, Apr 19, 2017
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. It doesn't look to me that any adjustments were made to the front suspension. The front toe-in should be 0 degrees +/- 0.2 degrees. You can see that the "after" reading is slightly worse than "before". The front camber spec is -0.58 degrees +/- 0.75 degrees. Front caster is not adjustable, and the spec is 3.17 degrees +/- 0.75 degrees.
    2. I would not recommend your trying to install a rear wheel shim kit considering your auto wrenching experience is close to zero. You would have to remove the four bolts holding the rear axle hub to the beam axle, on each side of the car, to install the shims. This implies you have the proper tools to do so and will avoid causing damage to the brake lines, etc.
    3. When installing shims on a particular rear wheel hub, you can adjust rear toe-in, or rear camber, but typically not both on a given hub. Considering the measurements on your car, I would put the priority on adjusting the toe-in. Spec is 0.3 degrees +/- 0.25 degrees. Notice the right rear tire on your car is actually pointing out, given the negative toe-in reading.
    4. Variations in rear suspension alignment readings before and after are probably due to measurement uncertainty in the equipment and maybe some looseness in the vehicle suspension.
     
    #5 Patrick Wong, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  6. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Taking nothing away from what Patrick posted....

    I see two issues here:
    1) Either the equipment is bad, or the operator an idiot - AFTER numbers are worse (or changed w/o any adjustment being made) than before, see those in RED.
    2) The rear tow is within spec, but no where near ideal.

    You *may* be able to correct the tow at the RR with a shim under the two REAR hub bolts without disassembling the whole mess. This would require cutting the bolt holes thru to one side and sliding the shim un between the hub and axle, then torqueing all four bolts. The question is, how thick a shim do you need?
     
    #6 05PreeUs, Apr 23, 2017
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Is the only thing readily adjustable, and the only thing an alignment shop would be doing typically: front toe?

    Seems like their printout automatically spits out before and after values, regardless. I would not assume the presence of an "after" value indicates an adjustment.

    They're not miracle workers, lol.
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Apr 23, 2017
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The only routine adjustments on Prius would be front toe, and front camber. The latter is adjusted by loosening the two bolts at the bottom of the strut, and moving the strut in (for more negative camber) or out (for less negative camber) depending upon how you are trying to adjust the camber.
     
    #8 Patrick Wong, Apr 23, 2017
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