Atlantic hurricane season

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Cyclones persisting in low latitudes get (ocean surface) heat unless they are sheared or land- (especially mountain-) crippled. Cyclones moved to high latitudes lose 'hot-floor' energy input but may spin even harder.

    Where can be found a description of all this, pitched at the 'we hated learning about science' general public?
     
    #181 tochatihu, Sep 6, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    NE Caribbean islands now begin very bad times. I've suggested to folks in NE Puerto Rico that they will have big rain but only middling winds. We shall see about that.

    Two more larger islands will get their effects before Irma turns towards Florida.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  4. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    I agree that warm surface water is the primary source of energy for tropical systems. I tend to agree with DAS that tropical systems are at the mercy of the steering of the regional tropospheric flow.
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Assuming it takes the current, projected, East coast of Florida, Kennedy may be out of service for a while. One Falcon 9 launch scheduled for Thursday ... beating the storm.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Curious about global accumulated cyclone energy (ACE). This was previously updated at Weatherbell by Ryan Maue. No longer. He has moved to Cato Institute.

    Dr. Maue 'made his name' by publishing about a decrease in ACE in a prestigious journal. Turned out to be of short duration, but as we know, science is self correcting :)

    Unclear whether such a convenient ACE repository will be presented elsewhere. Kerry Emanuel would know, but during such active hurricane season he might not wish to be bothered.

    R (a statistical package) would be well suited to construct a 'script' that ingests standard-format files (like HURDAT) to calculate ACE or other useful cyclone analyses. Perhaps now there is impetus for development there.
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Beating@187. do not know how this is handled. I suppose many things need to be 'open' prior to a scheduled launch. Maybe not enough time for buttoning up afterwards? Also these events are tourism magnets to some degree, which may not be what the space coast needs right now.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Ooh, that's an X-37B launch. Secret stuff like NROL launches. Maybe not a touristic at all. Don't know how that would affect a 'slip it in before a possibly massive hurricane' decision.

    It's not like this device has anything really urgent to do on orbit. Right???
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm not sure but Wiki suggests ACE may no longer considered the best standard. Per Wiki, ACE is based on eye wall velocity and does not integrate over the area of the storm nor include water effects, the storm surge. Of course I have a fondness for more contemporary metrics ... especially if in orbit. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Well they may want to peek at Korea. The real challenge is getting the first stage recovered fast enough. Once lashed down, everyone 'head for the hills' ... opps Florida!

    Bob Wilson
     
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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That's the beauty of R scripting. One can ingest HURDAT and calculate ACE IKE or TIKE for the whole shebang.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "peek at Korea". Ya don't say :whistle:

    That this one would be in a higher-inclination orbit might have been the tipoff.
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Wrong to speak of Irma in the past tense, but it developed very high winds and large wind field without the typical ultra-low central pressure. This is an example of things that can be examined by grinding through HURDAT best tracks from all the basins.

    Should stop going on about R scripting because I'm such a neophyte. Yet its enthusiasts heap praise for just such capabilities.

    ===
    Next job for Irma is to survive interactions with elevated terrain of Hispaniola and Cuba. Only then will we know how much ACE (or TIKE) it may present to Florida. Less extensive high ground in Puerto Rico does not appear to have scraped off much energy.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If other factors delay launch, can they get the vehicle back into shelter quick enough?
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    With apologies for my emesis here, I remain very very concerned about Irma vs. Florida.

    She will be diminished by land interactions as above. But (recently improved) modeling is becoming consistent about a long trip along Florida's entire east coast at Cat4/3 intensity. Such is rare or absent from detailed history. It would surely be unprecedented in terms of effects vs. populations and properties.

    Florida evacuations have already begun. They will be incomplete. Properties remain at risk. At this moment we might be in awe of what Irma has already been and done, and fail to look forward.

    Don't.

    We are still focused on Harvey recovery. May distract from rest of Irma's story.

    Don't let it.

    Y'all might read

    Bryan Norcross, hero of Hurricane Andrew: Florida is &#8216;not remotely prepared&#8217; for the next one - The Washington Post

    Yes, it is in WaPo. Yes, it promotes Norcross' book. But he has credibility in this matter.

    One might hope that Harvey will finally be the story of 2017 Atlantic hurricanes, and Irma/Carib as secondary. I am concerned that 2017 may end up with Irma >> Harvey.

    ===
    Happily, Hurricane Jose (in trail) will probably just stir ocean waters. Hurricane Katia will bring typical little league problems to part of Mexico. But Irma might outdo Harvey, and together they'd make 2017 a year hard to forget.
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "shelter quick enough". Read coverage at Spaceflightnow and form your own conclusions. There are only 2 X-37B units as far as we know. Pad-side sheltering of one of them would have no risk from 'cryos', but with explosive bolts and who knows what else. I would expect this matter to be handled very carefully, and not publicly.

    ===
    OK, that's it. If something new important arises about Hurricane Irma, I will start a new thread unless somebody else does so first.
     
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Are there hurricane trends at decadal (~climate) scales?

    Perhaps this can be best addressed with HURDAT reanalyses for N Atl basin because of longest (maybe firmest) data. NOAA and UNISYS host those data, from year AD 1851. Ending with 2016; 2017 is not yet finished with tropical cyclones.

    These data have questioned because some storms may have been missed before satellite (we got it all) era. However, the North Atlantic has been full of ships since 1851 (also earlier) and few if any hurricanes could have been missed. As smaller, weaker tropical depressions might have been missed, I exclude them. I (and others more in the game than me) doubt that N Atl hurricanes have been missed.

    With that in mind, see annual hurricanes (decadal smoothing) through time:
    hurricane count.png
    Overall increase includes interesting dips that do not match regional air-temperature trends. Some ocean cycles might? Main question is how hurricanes will go in future, and on what basis might we suppose that this overall increase could stop? Incomplete 2017 season has 6 hurricanes so far.

    We also hear that in future climate, a larger fraction of hurricanes may become strong (Saffir-Simpson 4 or 5). That smoothed fraction has been:
    major fraction.png

    Which broadly increases since 1910, but with a large decrease after 1960. Without some knowledge about causes for that, it would seem difficult to anticipate ‘high-end’ hurricane futures. This fraction for 2017 so far is 0.33 and it is not included in the final datum above.

    All above has ‘whole-basin’ perspective without identifying which storm struck US economic interests.

    These empirical graphs might lead towards better understanding. Until then, they can push back against (for example) odd claims that Atlantic hurricanes are dwindling. Such claims were odd even before the most recent two muscular 2017 storms.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    all these warnings have just reinforced the hardheadedness of the already hard headed.

    next severe threat, only 50% as many people will bail. sooner or later, it will be a major catastrophe.
     
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