Computer may be dying -- some ???s

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by cyberpriusII, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    We use a butt-ton (US measure) of UPSs at big phone which is interesting because one of the features of a Central office is robust backup power. I've literally seen engineers buy and use UPSs in an outlet that's marked as "protected power" and all of the UPSs that I have at home are units that were discarded because the batteries failed.

    Remember this a year or three from now:
    Most home UPSs are crap, and like many things in life, bigger is NOT better.
    I'd be VERY surprised if your computer uses more than 300 watts, and the box is the only thing that you need protection for - so the smallest home UPS will serve, and when the battery(s) fail-----and they WILL fail, you can replace the batteries themselves easily instead of the whole UPS. Also.....most generic batteries will work fine as a replacement.
    If you have your computer's power supply replaced - and I echo the sentiment that this is not your root problem, see if there's any info on the replacement (or original) power supply. I just replaced a 150w power supply (that really was broken) on a Dell desktop that I intend to turn into a dumb terminal, and yours is probably similar, meaning that any 150w UPS would be big enough to run the computer.
    The only trouble is that all of this is too easy for the US consumer to figure out, so they largely stopped using watts and now sell USPs rated in VA (volt-amps) and try to tell the hapless home owner that they should only use 'pure sine-wave' UPSs.

    I just did a quick search and it seems that about the smallest home unit at Amazon is a 350VA (about 200 watts) box for less than $50, delivered.
    In other words.....the 'el-cheapo' $40-50 unit will be good enough for your purposes.
    600VA (about 300w) units seem to be the most ubiquitous home defense units.

    You live in Oregon.
    Lots of rain. Maybe not as much lightning, although things might be different in the eastern half of the state. You're more interested in keeping power constant rather than being zorched by lightning - so again.....cheap is good enough.

    If you lived in the South East, my advice might or might not be a little different, depending on how you feel about lightning protection in consumer electronics. I personally think that there's little to be gained by getting more expensive surge protectors because lightning is going to do what lightning does. You ABSOLUTELY do need surge protection in these states, but there's little to be gained (IMHO) is getting a gold plated unit rated for 1,000,000,,000 zillion pirate-ninjas/pico-second, or whatever made up unit that THEY made up over a WalMart special.

    Texas likes to think that they're the most lightning prone state, because....they're Texas and they like to think that they're number one in everything, but (in order) Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas lead the pack in lightning strikes per square mile, and Oregon is probably in the lower 10 states.

    Good Luck!
     
    #21 ETC(SS), Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    If it is a desktop computer, you probably should run your monitor on the UPS too. That lets you see what you are doing if you shut it down safely.
     
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  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Most modern PCs have soft power buttons.
    In other words they put themselves into a low power state (sleep mode) by mashing the button once, and then the UPS will keep the box viable for hours, which is the important part.
     
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  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    And to be clear, when a commercial center's batteries "fail" it is really just that they are 20% dead, 80% alive which is no good for commercial 6-sigma uptime type installations.

    I have a literal ton of UPS's at my house. Every 3-5 years I replace all the 12v batteries, just did this year. But my racks can't go down.

    In your case, you are basically power filtering. Modern UPS's can be connected to the computer itself. So when the power goes off, it can send an ACPI signal to the computer to begin a soft shutdown. This may take 1-5 minutes depending on if you have open programs that have to timeout (like a non-saved word doc) or if you have updates pending. Getting a UPS with 10-15 minutes run-time is more than enough. And 5 years from now when the batteries are only good for 5 minutes, you're still OK.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "But my racks can't go down"

    Because he's HODL :)
     
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  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    That's 2 racks of the bunch. :)
     
  7. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Many years ago, I was at a dice table at Circus Circus casino in Las Vegas. They had moved the table to the air curtain boundary and it was packed. I was doing OK when a young lady squeezed in to play.

    After a few minutes she asked, "Are you feeling lucky?"

    So I replied, "No it is just probability. There are only four bets worth making to minimize the house advantage ... " and I proceeded to explain the math behind dice. It wasn't until later that I realized she might not have been interested in dice and probability. I left with more money than I brought to the table.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #28 bwilson4web, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  9. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    just remember not all of us can afford to buy a $1,500 (???) home computer we only basically use for PriusChat and Airline reservations.

    I have a very expensive bike, but it is my basic transportation (EEK, no the Prius is not my basic ride). I do not look down on people who ride Magnas or Pacifics that cost $80.

    Anyway, if said computer is dead, I lose some stuff I would like to keep, but nothing that "kills" me.

    So, a $300 computer versus $XXXXX, I will go with the $300.

    A $125 bike versus an $800 bike, I go with the $800. People who do not rely on a bike go with the less expensive. Of course, I can take apart and put together the bike with a blindfold and one hand. So, you reap what you sow -- or so my dad told me (as an aside, he died last month and that really hit ME!!)
    kris
     
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  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    If that's all you do, then just use a smartphone. It is a $1000 computer that your carrier usually subsidizes to $200-$600.

    A $300 computer will work just fine. A $50 craigslist computer will work just fine. But you have electrical problems, so you need a UPS and that may cost more than your CL computer.
     
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  11. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    And, some of us live in areas where there is no cell service, unless we walk out of the house, up the hill and stand under the one fir bough...like to try again with the assumption?,,,,,,and I have never bought a CL computer.
     
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  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Smartphones have WiFi...
     
  13. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    And, I have a 2004 Samsung black stripe flip phone. You need to know that not everyone buys into the whole "need it>" Or should I say I do not need a smart phone -- nor -- really any cell phone.
     
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  14. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Ok then know that your reluctance to purchase quality and reasonably new goods is your problem. The frequencies available for a 2004 phone are around but no longer the main carrier supported bands. You would probably get perfect reception on a modern phone.

    I don't understand what you are reluctant about. You need a computer for basic tasks. You need a UPS to protect you from your crappy electrical service. A smartphone is more computer than you need AND has a built in UPS. It is perfect for those types of installations. Cheap WIndows-10 tablets can be had for $100 on Amazon. I've used them in an embedded environment before for just this reason. When the power goes out, it stays on for a few hours. It's a full computer.

    If cost is your most important factor, buying a smartphone or tablet will be the most economical. Even the lowest end smartphone today will perform more than well enough for internet browsing.
     
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  15. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    It comes down to the fact that I am not a slave to modern technology, even though I have a PHd in biology (2015). My issue is that you seem to assume quite a bit.
     
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  16. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Also $1.5k for a computer is still pretty cheap. I just put in 2 new HP DL580's used, and a full generation old, and they cost about $45k.... EACH. Could be used to browse PC and reserve flights, but they'll be doing some pretty processing and database caching.
     
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  17. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Tired of the argument. I know most people "can't live" without a cell phone. I can. I rely on myself, Not on those faceless folks I might be able to call.

    I live with waking up looking outside and seeing nothing but nature for as far as the eye can see.

    A mile or so away, I can see a herd of deer grazing. I can see a kite feeding on a squirrel. I can see a couple of Stellar jays arguing.

    I do not, nor do I think I ever will, understand how folks feel fulfilled with electronics, etc. But, each to their own thing.
     
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  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Then why do you need a computer? If you're trying to be cheap, great for you. The cheapest way to get what you want is a modern cheap smartphone or tablet connected via WiFi or even WiFi+Cellular. You don't actually have to carry them around with you, just put them where your big desktop tower used to be.

    After you get the repair back and it has done nothing (because a bad PSU is not your problem), perhaps you'll be more receptive to help that others can give. Good luck!

    And we have a herd of 12 deer that live in our yard. I see them every morning. And rabbits. And bears, and coyotes, and mountain lions, and foxes, and hawks, etc. But I also have a cell phone. The two aren't mutually exclusive. In today's modern world, it would be irresponsible to be in the actual wilderness without a cell phone or locating beacon. I'll be in Whitehorse (Yukon Territory) in a month. You bet I am going to be bringing my cell phone and spare battery banks while hiking in the national forests. It doesn't take long to die when the high is freezing (0C).

    Good Luck! I hope your desktop repair is successful.
     
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  19. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    The one word "irresponsible" is what pulls me so far away from what you say.

    Everyone is responsible for themselves. Being a woman, I hate to say it, but I REALLY think I know it more than a guy.

    It is NOT irresponsible to be in the wilderness without "technology."

    It is just that some people rely on themselves, and others do not.

    I rely on myself. Not a woman thing. It's a person thing.Hmm, did I contradict myself? Would not be the first time!!!!
    Kris.
     
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  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It has nothing to do with gender.

    When you go out in remote areas, you call a station and report your location. That way if you don't report back, they at least know in what general area you were eaten by a polar bear. A search and rescue service (of any kind) is a huge drain on resources, especially for a remote town. And every policeman, fireman, medic, ranger, and volunteer combing the land for your body (hopefully warm, but probably cold) could be doing other things. It is so irresponsible that it is illegal in some places to go out without such an emergency transponder, beacon, or communication device. You hope to never use it, but that's what it is for. And if you need it, and they know exactly where you are, it may still take a day for them to get to you.

    Whitehorse:

    [​IMG]