I can walk into the showroom and purchase a base model 3 for $24,550 with tax credits, California and utility company rebates. You can do i better than $27,5K in MA because I hear they have State rebates there too. Regarding model Y, I think you are saying you like the concept of a SUV better than a sedan, since no one knows what the model Y looks like yet. That's fine but if the design of the model Y is anything like the model X (big and bloated) which i think it will be but on a smaller scale, I will personally pass. If the model Y is more like the Prius hatchback sedan design, I will be very interested and it could become a second Tesla in my garage!
He is saying that putting down a $1000 reservation is the same as signing up on a website as interested in terms of measuring demand in a product. IIRC, that still makes interest in the Model 3 at least a magnitude more than the Mirai.
California electric car sales in 2017 Chevrolet Bolt: 13,487 Tesla Model S: 11,813, and Tesla Model X: 6,910 Fiat 500: 4,943 Nissan Leaf: 4,418 VW Golf: 3,202 It appears the Bolt was highest in individual sales for one model. As more manufactures including Toyota come out with EV's in 2019, the competion will be putting pressure on Tesla.
Nice @orenji showing the stats for last year. Care to show the stats for this year including the model 3? No, I didn't think so. Regarding the Toyota BEV that you say will be released in 6 months, can you show me a picture, any picture, of that Toyota BEV? Can you show me where on Toyota's website I can be one of those 500K excited reservationists and sign up to reserve one? What is the price of that Toyota BEV going to be? Can you show me where Toyota's proprietary superchargers are located? C'mon @orenji, you threw that out there so put up or admit you are wrong.
The Model 3 is being built, and production for the base trim is scheduled for later this year. If you are going to claim it will face more competition in 2019, and name Toyota as one of them, I think its fair to ask for details on this model. Many here are waiting for a Toyota BEV after all.
Oh, that is what @john1701a is talking about. Sure John, I can give you the specs: price = $35,000 start of production = Q4/18 range = 220 miles (but probably more the way I drive) 0-60 = 5.5 sec. (but probably faster the way I drive) interior = textile exterior = looks the same as the more expensive model 3 since no exterior badging on any model 3 pictures = go to Tesla website reservations = go to Tesla website (requires $1000 refundable deposit to hold your place in line) What else would you like to know @john1701a ? Now please give me the specs, pricing, pictures, and reservation page for the 2019 Toyota BEV. I may want to reserve one.
Posters have been comparing Tesla to Prius, that's what I was talking about. Where can I see pictures of the 2019 Toyota BEV?
If Toyota used the Prime tech and just multiplied the pack, how many miles of range could they get out a car with the space available? Or would they have to go to a brand new pack design and architecture?
The lithium ion battery has one drawback I can see, it is too structured because of its shape making it kind of rigid for auto design. The lithium polymer on the other hand can be made in any shape and require no additional casing. For a given battery mass, a LIPO therefore holds more charge. LIPO batteries have their own disadvantages too but using this for an example there are ways to make the battery placement more flexible.
They might be able to get the range to around that of the Ioniq Electric. If they stuffed battery every where they could, at the cost of more cabin and cargo space. The problem is that the frame was designed for an ICE car, not electric. The current battery is fine in terms of performance, though you might want liquid cooling for a larger pack. Making the Prime a BEV without the car looking like a third party EV conversion requires redesigning the frame.
I agree with the above. An additional problem with converting the existing Prime body style (which is the Prius ICE style with minor modifications) to a BEV is that it has a relatively high drag coefficient (Cd). In comparison, the Tesla model 3 has a .23 Cd, the model S a .24 Cd while the Prime has a .29 Cd. It does not make any economic sense to covert the Prime to a BEV. This is the problem with the Jag I-Pace and the Mini electric designs, they took an existing ICE body style and converted it to a BEV resulting in a less than aerodynamic solution for battery propulsion. Toyota will have to start with a blank slate to design a viable BEV competitor at any price point.
i thought prius was .25, but they could surely improve just by losing all the body art. but i agree it's not the right package for a long distance bev. knowing toyota though, the first one will probably be a hundred miles, stuffed into a prius. if they lose the independent rear suspension, might work.
The Cd for the Prius is all over the place, listed at .24, .25, and .26. Anyway it is now lower than what I initially saw and posted. The point is that stuffing enough battery into that body shape to make it a BEV will result in much lower interior and cargo volume at a cost to aerodynamics.
