I captured a screen shot from www.fueleconomy.gov list of 24 electric vehicles: model MPGe City Hwy kWh/100 mi 1 Hyundai Ioniq Electric 136 150 122 25 2 Tesla Model 3 Long Range 130 136 123 26 3 Chevrolet Bolt EV 119 128 110 28 4 Volkswagen e-Golf 119 126 111 28 5 BMW i3 (94Ah) 118 129 106 29 6 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD Performance 116 120 112 29 7 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD 116 120 112 29 8 Honda Clarity EV 114 126 103 30 9 BMW i3s (94Ah) 112 126 99 30 10 Nissan Leaf 112 125 100 30 11 Fiat 500e 112 121 103 30 12 smart fortwo electric drive coupe 108 124 94 31 13 Kia Soul Electric 108 124 93 31 14 Ford Focus Electric 107 118 96 31 15 Tesla Model S 75D 103 102 105 33 16 smart fortwo electric drive convertible 102 112 91 33 17 Tesla Model S 100D 102 101 102 33 18 Tesla Model S 75kWh 98 97 100 34 19 Tesla Model S P100D 98 92 105 35 20 Tesla Model X 75D 93 91 95 36 21 Tesla Model X 100D 87 86 89 39 22 Tesla Model X P100D 85 83 89 40 23 BYD e6 72 73 71 47 Caution with the Hyundai as we are seeing a significant gap between the user reported, hybrid mileage in Fuelly,com and the EPA numbers. I left it in the table even though I have some reservations. Notice the Tesla Model 3 is significantly improved over the Model S and X. In effect a clean-sheet, optimized design. Bob Wilson
The Model 3 also has a permanent magnet motor vs. the Model S' induction motor. I'm not an engineer so I don't know the details but all I know is that the PM motor is more efficient by nature than the induction motor, right? So that should account for some of the improvements in efficiency.
For those of us who've never perused fuelly - are the Hyundai owners reporting higher or lower #'s. Reason for the inquiry is that in years past, Hyundai has been known to over state their fuel claims & it would seem incredible they would do that again after previously facing consumer wrath. .
The table is a nice summary of EPA ratings. EPA ratings do not often reflect real world expectations, For example, anecdotal evidence is that the Ioniq is getting far less than the EPA ratings while my Prius Plug-In (with my conservative driving style) and the Model 3 are getting much better than EPA ratings. Some model 3 owners are reporting as few as 20 kWh/100 miles. The reasons that the model 3 is more efficient than the Model S/X are varied and you have named one of them: Permanent magnate motor vs. induction motor Improved and different battery chemistry Lighter weight Better cD (coefficient of aerodynamics) It is rumored that the inevitable Model S refresh will include the new permanent magnate motors and the newer traction batteries to improve efficiency. We'll see.
An induction motor is essentially using electromagnets. So a permanent magnet saves on the energy needed to magnetize the magnets in the induction motor. There was onceworry over supply and costs for rare earth magnets, which is why the Model S and X use induction ones. Hyundai got hit over how averages from the tests were determined. After the big fines, the 2016 adjustments to EPA testing rules included clarifications on how those are handled. The Fuelly numbers aren't as close to the EPA as the Prius is, but the average reported MPG is still over 51, and close to reported gen4 Prius numbers. There seems to be a wider spread to the results for the Ioniq.
the way tesla encourages people to drive, you would do better to take one for a test drive to get 'your' real world numbers.
yep - & what's old is new again ... the genII Rav4ev had a PM motor, as well as Toyota's original 1990's Rav4ev. .
which explains why the 1997 Prius started right out with PM motors - in the book, they reference the original RAV4 EV team and they pulled experience learned from that team.
So I defined a new term: City Eff = (MPGe_City - MPGe_Hwy) / (MPGe_City + MPGe_Hwy) A higher number means the vehicle is better around town, ~90% of our miles, versus highway. Realize that high City Eff could be due to poor aerodynamics: model City Hwy City Eff % 1 Kia Soul Electric 124 93 14.3% 2 smart fortwo electric drive coupe 124 94 13.8% 3 BMW i3s (94Ah) 126 99 12.0% 4 Nissan Leaf 125 100 11.1% 5 smart fortwo electric drive convertible 112 91 10.3% 6 Hyundai Ioniq Electric 150 122 10.3% 7 Ford Focus Electric 118 96 10.3% 8 Honda Clarity EV 126 103 10.0% 9 BMW i3 (94Ah) 129 106 9.8% 10 Fiat 500e 121 103 8.0% 11 Chevrolet Bolt EV 128 110 7.6% 12 Volkswagen e-Golf 126 111 6.3% 13 Tesla Model 3 Long Range 136 123 5.0% 14 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD Performance 120 112 3.4% 15 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD 120 112 3.4% 16 BYD e6 73 71 1.4% 17 Tesla Model S 100D 101 102 -0.5% 18 Tesla Model S 75D 102 105 -1.4% 19 Tesla Model S 75kWh 97 100 -1.5% 20 Tesla Model X 100D 86 89 -1.7% 21 Tesla Model X 75D 91 95 -2.2% 22 Tesla Model X P100D 83 89 -3.5% 23 Tesla Model S P100D 92 105 -6.6% In a graph: Induction motors are less efficient than PM but affordable when the Model S and X came out. There are reports of overheating at sustained high speeds and this is also consistent with induction motor inefficiencies. Also, the AWD Model 3 uses an induction motor for the front so with balanced power, the lower City efficiency makes sense. Back when the Model S and X came out, power electronics were silicon based. But today Tesla has access (reports are) silicon-carbide, power electronics. These are more efficient. Tesla changed from the 18650 to 2170 that uses a better geometry and chemistry. Notice the curious point for the Hyundai Ioniq EV . . . I still don't trust their data. The less efficient City cars look boxy, poor aerodynamics. At slow City speeds, aerodynamics are not so important. Bob Wilson
Bob, do we know what the 2nd Gen Leaf's numbers are? I do know that it does much better at highway speeds.
I'd like to chime in here being an owner of 2 different BEV's with varying ranges. While city economy is important, highway economy is MUCH more important to a BEV considering it almost always takes highway speeds to push the range limits of most BEV's.
one thing explained early on was that the model S & X got greater efficiency with all-wheel drive even though it's heavier) opposed to just the rear motor. It was explained that once the load decreased, the system put the big motor to sleep and ran on the much more efficient smaller front motor. However, with the EPA numbers out on the model 3 now, surprisingly there's no difference in it's efficiency from rwd to awd. .
The motor type Tesla uses is sort of a permanent magnet motor. Tesla has identified it as a Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor. Here is an excellent article on it with references to even more detail if you like. Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica Bob, what does your ‘city efficiency’ tell us? It seems to me it is rather clouded. Why not simply use the epa city efficiency numbers?
When they come out, how much lighter will the 'standard 3' be and how does one suppose that this will change the efficiency #'s?
Dang! Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica That was one great article explaining the differences in their newly designed & extra efficient motor! .
It was speculated that the Short Range version of the model 3 will be about 300 - 400 lbs lighter than the long Range version due to a smaller battery pack. Tesla says the Long Range version has 310 mile range (while the EPA says 334 mile range) and the Short Range version 220 mile range (the EPA hasn't tested that model). In my opinion, the Short Range version will have about 240 highway mile range (to match the Bolt's rated range) while driving 65 mph with the 18" aero wheels on flat land with no wind conditions.
The thing that jumps out to me is that chart correlates very closely with vehicle weight. Other factors include types of tires, types of rims, state of charge, etc. I'm not sure how to use this chart other than presuming the EPA figures are fair and gathered under the same conditions for a specific car, which Tesla says can vary to some extent based on the variability of a specific electric motor.
I was wondering more about efficiency than range, since one (insert air quotes) "presumes" this will be a more apples to apples measurement against other vehicles. If the 3LR is 130mpge, one wonders what the 3B will be..... Overall range is a YMMV thing...as we've seen with the Bolt and the Leaf, to cite two opposing examples.