Weather is not climate but gosh it was warm

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Feb 23, 2018.

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  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    @Prius from Dad have shown very convincing linear relationship between the EV range and ambient temperature on PRIME.

    Decreasing Mile Range | Page 2 | PriusChat

    From my experience, winter months EV range on my PRIME is about half (18-25 miles) of what I get in summer time (34-45 miles).
     
    #21 Salamander_King, Nov 12, 2019
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That checks roughly with CR's data
     
    #22 ETC(SS), Nov 12, 2019
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I’m using the BMW i3-REx while doing some work with the Model 3. Normally I get ~4 mi/kWh around 70 F but below freezing, ~3.1 mi/ kWh. You have to be rigorous about pre-conditioning.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #23 bwilson4web, Nov 12, 2019
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  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Noted for future reference.

    Thanks!
    That's a bit of a hit, but < 50%
     
    #24 ETC(SS), Nov 12, 2019
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    course, it depends on temp, and how much heat you want. i lose about 25% with no heat, but a much less sophisticated battery and system
     
    #25 bisco, Nov 12, 2019
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    (4.0-3.1)/4.0 = 22.5%

    Ad hoc loss of efficiency. The battery has reduced capacity that returns as it warms. This remains an area where more investigation makes sense because it has poorly understood characteristics. For example, in the past two weeks I found a protocol that appears to give 240 mi range a boost to 243 mi extra charge.

    There is a cold hit but we’re learning there are GOOD and BAD practices.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #26 bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, please explain that phenomenon to someone with very rudimentary understanding of how battery works. I am all eyes and ears. ;)
     
    #27 Salamander_King, Nov 13, 2019
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Bjørn is publishing YouTube videos that show warming the battery to 45-50 C improves charging capacity and speed significantly. Then cooling the battery to operational 20 C works. So I have verified this with our Tesla Model 3:
    • Limit charging but use pre-condition for 2-4 hours.
    • Increase the charging limit and let car stop.
    • Let car cool for 1-2 hours.
    The charging chemistry runs faster at a higher temperature BUT not so high the electrolyte decomposes and fixes some of the lithium ions into inert compounds. Then during discharge, the rates are so much lower the battery Guess O Meter (GOM) shows more range.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #28 bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2019
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    penn state researchers claim they have found a way to fast charge lithium by heating and cooling, without increased degradation.
    i wonder if it would also work for thermal efficiency
     
    #29 bisco, Nov 13, 2019
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Excellent! Can I order some of their 21700 cells?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #30 bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2019
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't see why not ;)
     
    #31 bisco, Nov 13, 2019
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