Not just hydrogen, fusion hydrogen powered

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Feb 18, 2022.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Radical Idea Shows Laser Propulsion Could Rapidly Accelerate Trips to Mars

    . . . a team of researchers from Montreal's McGill University assessed the potential of a laser-thermal propulsion system. According to their study, a spacecraft that relies on a novel propulsion system – where lasers are used to heat hydrogen fuel . . .

    Referencing hydrogen normally makes me 'turn the page' as we've seen so many hydrogen frauds but what the heck, I scanned the rest only to find:

    . . .
    While much of the technology in this proposed mission architecture – and other similar proposals – is still in the theory and development phase, there is no doubt about their potential.

    Reducing the time it takes to get to Mars to a matter of weeks instead of months will address two of the biggest challenges for Mars missions – logistical and health considerations.

    Furthermore, establishing a rapid-transit system between Earth and Mars will speed the creation of infrastructure between Earth and Mars. This could include a Gateway-like space station in orbit of Mars, like the Mars Base Camp proposed by Lockheed Martin, as well as a laser array to decelerate incoming spacecraft.
    . . .

    Then I realized this is science fiction like earlier articles that predated: aviation; spaceflight; nuclear, and; bioengineering. Science fiction is aspirational and can inspire breakthrough work. But it can also lead to shady characters selling 'snake oil' (which is a thing.)

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why not jump right to a gravitic propulsion system like asimov used in the 50's...
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    We should be getting to Mars before any of this aspirational stuff is ready, so it would be for future mass transit and tourism, not initial exploration.

    I also can't yet take it seriously when the project doesn't have enough oversight and review resources to catch "break" vs "brake" mistakes:

    "... development of high-temperature materials that allow the spacecraft to break against the Martian atmosphere upon arrival.”"
     
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  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I should also point out that this is not a hydrogen "fusion" proposal. There is no nuclear fusion here. Instead, it is laser-thermal, using captured laser energy, directed from a distant external source, to heat hydrogen propellant to a much higher temperature than is possible from chemical combustion. This is used to achieve a higher exhaust velocity and specific impulse, allowing the job to be done with a lighter load of propellant.

    For comparison, the Space Shuttle Main Engines had a specific impulse of about 450, or exhaust velocity of about 4400 m/s. This proposal is aiming for a specific impulse in the range of 3000, corresponding to rocket chamber temperature of about 10,000 K, and apparently an exhaust velocity around 30,000 m/s.
     
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  5. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    For most of Ben Bova's "Grand Tour" series of books, there's a "fusion torch drive" for high-speed, but slower-than-light, travel. Not much detail on how it works, though.
     
  6. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    I was on Gumtree this week, looking for a desk. (Do they have Gumtree in America? It's like Craigslist without the drugs and prostitution.)

    The number of people who said their desks had "three draws" or "built-in draws". I honestly think more people wrote "draws" than "drawers". It was a disgrace.

    And car sales websites are full of cars with "good breaks" or that "need new breaks". What, are we talking about cars that are good for surfing on?
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i thought we only said draws in boston :cool:
     
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  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm finding 0 ads within 100 miles of my zip code. Expanding the search to Nationwide, I see all prices shown in £, no $. Displayed Nearby locations are all in the UK.

    My own informal writings are getting sloppier with age, and with increasing exposure to even worse material from very many others. Some gets caught and corrected before edit windows expire, but I keep wondering how much has become mentally baked in such that I can't notice anymore.

    But I still expect much better than 'breaks' vs 'brakes' in formal materials from universities and news and technical media.
    I didn't read any of it, but it sounds like a sufficiently plausible sci-fi idea to leave at just that, without enough technical detail to draw naysayers and factcheckers. Some time long after ground-based fusion power plants starting operating -- six decades ago they were just two decades away, now maybe three for four decades away -- it eventually ought to reach space propulsion too. The theoretical potential should be far higher than this laser-thermal concept, with direct drive hydrogen fusion expelling its exhaust products at velocities a good fraction of light speed. The biggest challenge will be in not exterminating our own evolutionary branch before we can reach that technology.
     
    #8 fuzzy1, Feb 19, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
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  9. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    We need to bring back nuns as English teachers, or educators as called today.
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Considering the very many abuses by that institution that keep getting revealed nearly everywhere it has been, I'll pass on that option.
     
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  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I've worked with several parochial school survivors in the past. It's not pretty.

    We'd need to refine beryllium into superberyllium before it will help get us to the stars. think flexfuel like oxygen + hydrogen from the early years.