Talk about torque.

Because it's unimportant info. And if the numbers aren't amazing then there's no benefit to sharing it.

You get 0-60 in 7s. That information is all that will be relevant to 99.99% of people in their daily driving.

If you want to know, go get the car dyno'd.

 

The internal combustion engines in the Prius and Prius Prime output the exact same hp and torque. The difference in total hp is due to the Prime being able to pull more power from the larger battery. Also, the total net power output is not the sum of the different power sources.

Prius/Prime M20A-FXS
150hp @6000rpm
139lb-ft @4400-5200rpm

Prius HEV Electric Motor
111hp
83kW

Prius HEV AWD Rear Electric Motor
40hp
30kW

Prius Prime Electric Motor
161hp
120kW

Net Power Output
Prius Prime - 220hp
Prius HEV AWD - 196hp
Prius HEV FWD - 194hp

 

... which is ('cause somebody's bound to ask) because some of the power from the engine is delivered to the output mechanically, while the rest goes through the electric motor. Therefore, the power rating of the electric motor has to include that portion of engine power; it is not entirely a separate source of output power.

 

From Toyota's site, the engine in both produces 150hp and 139ft-lbs. The system power of the hybrid is 194hp, though I see the Wiki lists a 193-196 range for that.

The peak motor was once published for hybrids, but an electric motor's peak is at zero rpms. That isn't of much use to drivers. With the differing torque curves, and a portion of engine torque always going, coming up with a nonconfusing figure is probably a nightmare. Toyota explains the system power in a paper.

 

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a torque 'curve' for an MG2 in whatever gen, and it was pretty simple: it was flat horizontal at the spec'd maximum torque from zero RPM right out to where the torque times the RPM equaled the max power. From that point, with increasing RPM, the torque followed the downward curve (max power / RPM), kind of as you'd expect.

 

I don't recall Toyota ever posting a net torque for a hybrid. They used to for the motors, but now you have to go elsewhere to find even the power rating of M/G1 or whatever they now call it. Some of it is likely because the buyers Toyota mostly attracts buyers that likely don't care, and the company doesn't want to risk data overload scaring them. The general public is still clueless about hybrids. Some even about cars in general. The fact that our salespeople tend to know little about any of the cars they sell could also play into it.

As for the Golf, VW is using a very different hybrid system. It is parallel hybrid with a traditional transmission. There is one powerful motor that simply inputs input into the drive train using energy banked in the battery. The same motor charges the battery, either through regen braking or driven by the engine. The math here is simple.

The Prius and most Toyotas use a power/split system. These work as a parallel and series hybrid at the same time. There are two powerful motors. M/G2 is on the tail end of the drive train, and is the traction motor. M/G1 is buried in the eCVT. The planetary gear stet in the eCVT always diverts @20% of the torque generated by the engine to M/G1. Which then uses the electricity to drive M/G2 or charge the battery.

So the torque reaching the wheels from the engine is not the full torque the engine produced. The math is starting to complicate. Then M/G1 may not take all the torque it receives from the engine to make electricity. The system can vary its output, thereby simulating the variable gear ratios for the eCVT.

For both types of hybrid systems, the manufacturers have to also consider the battery. Max motor output only comes from banked energy in the battery, and it won't last long. In the early hybrid days, the gen1 Prius had a turtle warning light to alert the driver that power is limited by a depleted battery.

 

Toyota wins both the simplicity and the complication prize.

Simplicity because the transmission is so utterly minimal and bulletproof. Two motors, a set of gears that are always meshed the same way, nothing that ever clutches or shifts. Simplicity itself.

Complication because the first time you try to think through what it's doing, there's a bit of mind-bending involved. Once you get through it, that part's simple too.

 

I realize this is an old thread but I came across this spec sheet on the Toyota Europe web page that clearly states the Plug-In Hybrid power and torque numbers. I don't see these torque numbers listed even on the Toyota Prius Prime Wikipedia page.

 

I think we've known before what the engine torque is and what the electric motor torque is, but we've never known what the net torque is when both systems are combined. Unfortunately this chart doesn't tell us that either. It gives the net HP but not the net torque.

 

It looked different because of the different units (190 NM versus 139 lb-ft). In addition I didn't see a torque value on this thread or the US Spec sheet for the Prime electric motor listed which would be 153.4 lb-ft or 208 NM per this European spec sheet. Maybe I am missing it.

 

I thought someone on one of the early gen5 threads had found it buried in some documentation. Maybe the New Car Features that you can access on TechInfo? Or maybe one of the early reviews back in Dec 2022 or Jan 2023? It's been a long time so I might be misremembering.

 

I believe the OP was trying to do a comparison with his 2020 Golf PHEV and couldn't find data to compare them to.
It's a moot point since someone that's used to driving a performance oriented DSG car is going to be sorely disappointed with the driving dynamics of a gen5 prime. The seat in the pants feel will be way off (even if you place it into sports mode, IMHO); unless they just want to slow-down, take it easy, and enjoy the ride + gas sipping (high tea).

Just my two cents.....

 

I use the 7 speed DSG on my MINI to upshift to a higher gear, for the mpgs, lol.

 

I used to do the same when a manual gearbox could be had in a car. Used to do 50K miles a year as a field technician. Always got better than EPA ratings in a manual - even came close to or beat the early CVTs mpg.

 

Can a car with a CVT have torque measured at the wheels? Can a Dyno constantly adapt for the constant change in gearing?

While true, VW DSGs have been known to disappoint owners with iffy durability. Maybe being disappointed by VW using customers as beta testers would make a person more tolerant of disappointment with the thrill free manners of a Prius.