Featured Seems Draining your Lithium Ion Battery is really bad

Gee .... don't know but it'd seem to have been a whole lot easier to look at the original Tesla roadsters whose software allow them to run to depletion ..... at which point they were bricked - rather than doing a study ..... this study took what - an extra 10 years or more ?

Just sayin' ..... not so sure this study revealed much of a surprise.

Tesla And The Bricked Batteries: What's Really Going On? | The Truth About Cars

Next surprise study - putting hands in fire causes burns

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I'm replacing my 2019 Tesla Model 3 traction battery later today:

• 6 years and 150,000 miles
• failed thermal valve found that probably overheated battery the last two years
• ~$9,000

Everyone has learned a lot about EV battery health and best practices since 2019 when I got mine. Today, I can run a battery health check from the software and have access to in-car diagnostics. Furthermore, the Tesla maintenance manuals are online and I've used them as needed. Self driving lets me choose between:

• Hurry mode and 4 miles/kWh, saves ~6 minutes every hour
• Chill mode and 5 miles/kWh, adds ~6 minutes every hour

With new knowledge, tools, and techniques, I expect to get at least similar if not better performance and life from the replacement battery.

Bob Wilson

 

What % of drivers keep a car for >400K miles?

https://insideevs.com/news/722367/tesla-model-s-430000-miles-original-battery-motors/
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Most of this is very old news and the data was available way back in the 1980's; if someone cared to look for that information. Most of that research was related to cell phone battery usage.
Honda had a recall to software reconfigure the charge/discharge cycles on their gen1 civic hybrid and Toyota re-engineeried their original traction pack and control units on their gen1 Prius.

 

What kind of warranty do you get with the replacement battery? Is it third party or OEM?

 

Record number of battery swaps on one Tesla I could find online was 14 batteries. Of course the guy had nearly 1¼ million miles & mostly supercharged .... that meant ~90K miles per. Thus - do L2 charging (under 20kWs) if you can.

 

I couldn't find that one. Did find this on my search

14 motors, 3 batteries. So really this guy averaged over 300,000 miles each on the original plus the 3 replacements. The initial model S did have some problems with its motor units. Glad they worked that out before I bought my model 3.

 

Sorry about that. Thanks for the correction. Had it backwards
https://insideevs.com/news/699413/highest-mileage-tesla-model-s-3-batteries-14-motors/

 

how many manufacturers disclose what voltage the cells are at when the car shuts down?

 

Another reason why Lithium-Ion is no longer the best chemistry for batteries... Too hot Lithium Ion fails, too Cold Lithium Ion fails, too little charge Lithium Ion fails, too much charge Lithium Ion fails.

No wonder why Chinese car manufacturers like BYD and battery manufactures like CATL are already 3 years into cars running Sodium-Ion, which you can discharge down to 0.0volts for safe shipping and it causes no damage. It's more tolerant of heat and cold, as well as overcharging too.

 

sodium ion today is much bulkier and heavier than lithium ion including Lithium iron phosphate. These have great potential to replace the 12V lead acid battery, but need a lot more progress to work as the main battery in an ev. Right now Lithium Iron Phosphate is the main chemistry byd and catl are using, with smaller lighter batteries using the more expensive lion chemistries. Glad they are doing research but sodium ion like solid state is still years away from massive commercialization in plug-in vehicles.

 

Classic Texan response to Chinese technological advancements... Pretend that the rapidly declining 11% of the world's population as white people is magically superior than 2/3rds of humans who live in Asia and SE asia... Then when they introduce Sodium-Ion EVs in China 3 years ago act like it never happened and lithium is still superior. Then when they refine a way in a Chinese lab to have a higher density sodium-Ion chemistry than even Lithium-Ion can provide act like you never heard about that... Then when BYD starts rolling super affordable Sodium-Ion EVs off their assembly line that customers pay less than $15K for a brand new EV make sure to ban sales of BYD in the USA and tell everyone its "still years away from massive commercialization in plug-in vehicles" even though they've been doing it for three years already.

I look forward to all the people who are investing way too much money in planet harming Lithium mines going broke as fast as Elon is.

 

What kind of Anti american bs is that. I've set up factories in china. I know the terrain and problems. I also follow chinese as well as world wide technology. So big china expert what percentage of chinese vehicles use sodium ion instead of lithium ion? Since the chinese poured research dollars in lithium iron phosphate do you think those batteries are going away? If so why?

Well that is just ignorant and anti social. When they commercialize sodium ion then it will take off if the energy density and price make sense. That may not be until solid state. Right now lithium can be mined in environmentally correct ways. The bigger problem is cobalt and nickle, which is why lithium iron phosphate is taking off. This is slightly less energy dense but doesn't rely on problem metals. If byd produces a great ev in china, I'll problem drive it over there. Unfortunately with the trade war I don't know if american's will still be welcomed to sell our goods and services over there.

Sodium-ion solid-state could solve range and cost issues | Automotive World.

 

There is one and I’ll share once I get the car back.

Bob Wilson

 

So if I boil down a lot of words in #11, #12 and #13, part of it seems to come down to PriusCamper saying this:

and austingreen saying this:

That looks like a pretty good setup for a "who's right?" question.

Or are both right in some wonky way, like "yeah, they've been working on x for three years but most of their production is still y"?

 

LOL. BROKE ..... LOL



2019 through 2024 we bought ~40k in Tesla stock. It paid so well in our ROTH - that even covering the depreciation of the X & S - we still had enough to buy another vehicle with 7,500 of tax credits. Three car's EV credits makes a total of $22,500 which would have otherwise just been a tax liability.

If someone truly believes in something, they do what's called "putting your money where your mouth is". Or how 'bout, put up or shutup", etc. It can be assumed that anyone whose hair is on fire over Elon Musk, is shorting stock, right? Not just a social justice warrior, tap tapping away on their keyboard ..... or is recklessly shooting up tesla stores, & setting chargers on fire (that every EV owner now uses) & spray paint vandalizing cars owners (who WERE likely aligned w/ liberal ideology until such morons do such things) ....
So - how short on tesla?

figures .......


oh - it's never disappointing to hear off topics of a hate-filled rant - regardless of subject matter

 

Yeah, "unproven at commercial scales" even though BYD's Seagull EV was designed for Sodium-ion and is quickly transitioning into it and ramping up production. Of course commercial sales don't count in China or in the rest of the world, only in the US, right? Meanwhile the whole world is turning its back on the US as a trading partner to outright incompetence of its leadership and a whole new global economy is currently being negotiated without the US being involved anymore because the fix is in.

Here in America we just pretend that it isn't happening and dismiss and deny that JMEV's first Sodium Ion rolled off the assembly line in 2023, then Yiwei started doing the same, the BYD's Seagull. And granted there's a transition going on that takes time, but you're acting like the transition hasn't even gotten started and it has:

"The first mass-produced vehicles with sodium-ion batteries have started rolling off the production line in China. The new electric hatchback is from the Yiwei brand, part of Anhui Jianghuai Automobile (JAC) which Volkswagen owns 75 per cent of. The German giant also owns 50 per cent of JAC's parent company, JAG." VW-backed brand starts building sodium-ion-powered electric cars | CarExpert

"### **Current Production (2024–Early 2025)**
1. **Initial Commercial Models**:
- Two sodium-ion battery EVs are confirmed in production:
- **JMEV EV3** (by Jiangling Motors, using Farasis Energy batteries): Range of 251 km, energy density of 140–160 Wh/kg .
- **Yiwei 3** (by JAC Group, using Hina Battery cells): Range of 252 km, with deliveries starting in January 2024 .
- These are compact, low-cost models targeting urban commuting, with production likely in the thousands per month initially (exact numbers undisclosed) .

2. **Capacity Indicators**:
- Farasis Energy and Hina Battery are ramping up production, but their output is still in early stages compared to lithium-ion batteries .
- BYD and CATL are investing heavily in sodium-ion technology, with BYD’s 30 GWh plant (joint venture with Huaihai Group) slated for future production, but not yet at full scale .

### **Forecast for Mid-2025–2026**
1. **Expansion Plans**:
- **CATL** aims to mass-produce its **Naxtra** sodium-ion batteries by late 2025, targeting 175 Wh/kg energy density and 500 km range for passenger EVs. This could significantly boost monthly output if adopted by automakers like Chery .
- Farasis Energy plans to release a second-generation battery (160–180 Wh/kg) in 2024 and a third-gen (180–200 Wh/kg) by 2026, potentially enabling broader EV adoption .

2. **Market Growth**:
- Analysts project sodium-ion batteries could capture **5–12% of the energy storage market by 2030**, with EVs being a key segment .
- If current pilot projects (e.g., JAC, JMEV) succeed, monthly production could scale to **tens of thousands** by mid-2025, especially for micro-EVs and two-wheelers .

### **Key Constraints**
- **Energy Density**: Sodium-ion batteries still lag behind lithium-ion (e.g., 140–175 Wh/kg vs. 250+ Wh/kg), limiting use to shorter-range vehicles .
- **Supply Chain**: While sodium is abundant, manufacturing infrastructure is nascent compared to lithium-ion .

### **Conclusion**
Exact monthly figures remain undisclosed, but production is expected to grow **exponentially** from 2025 onward, driven by CATL, BYD, and startups. By mid-2026, China could be producing **10,000+ sodium-ion EVs monthly**, contingent on technology improvements and market demand .

For real-time updates, tracking announcements from CATL, Farasis, and JAC Group would be advisable.

 

how many seagul evs with sodium ion is byd going to produce? The current seaguls are LFP.

 

Yeah, you and Austin are so delusional you don't even understand the overleveraged financing that Tesla was built on and the fact that no car company has endured such a rapid decline in popularity which only just started half way through Q1-2025... The sustained numbers of their demise in Q2-2025 are going to be way worse and the type of financing scheme that's paid for their factories are way more vulnerable to insolvency then any car maker has ever done before. But just like Elon, your only reaction is a childish belief that global protests against the company are the people who are wrong and they're probably all being paid to protest because who's ever motivated by anything but money, right?