Scary steering issue (steering wheel turns left and right by itself)

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by landspeed, May 8, 2025 at 7:23 PM.

  1. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    Just wondering if anyone had had a similar issue:

    I have been doing some long drives in my gen 1.5. It had a slight wheel imbalance (slight shakes at 10,20,40mph). At other speeds all was fine.

    I am parked up in the rain (and it is near midwinter here!) and won’t drive my car for now. The judder rapidly escalated, and I have found that the steering wheel turns itself left and right, back and forth, at low speeds.

    I have checked the steering by turning the steering wheel and looking at the tyres. Zero play is evident. However, I have noticed that the camber of the front wheels seems ‘negative’ (with the wheels splayed out as if I have missed the camber, except I haven’t!). At 9mph, the car moves sideways left and right, including if the steering wheel is held straight.

    I have looked under the car and nothing is hanging down etc. The weather makes it hard to look any closer; the weather will be good tomorrow, and I won’t drive till I know what is wrong, but was wondering if anyone had any ideas / experience of something similar (in particular, steering wheel turning left and right back and forth at low speed (worsening over the journey), sudden? negative camber, but zero play in steering, wheel bolts all on tight etc

    thank you :)
     
  2. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    Edit : front wheels seem a little splayed ‘negative camber’ despite no modification; steering itself has zero play, remains precise etc, the issue persists even if ‘shifting to neutral’, doesn’t change under acceleration or braking, steering remains precise / no play on inspection or when I was driving.
     
  3. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Something is bent, broken or worn-out in your suspension system. Take it to an alignment shop for an official evaluation.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I would begin by unplugging the electric motor power steering ECU behind the glove box and then doing some test driving.

    The car will, of course, take more effort to steer, at low speeds, such as in parking lots. At normal road speeds, the difference in effort is barely noticeable.

    The point would be to see whether this turning of the wheel is something the EMPS is doing. If so, it ought to cease with the steering ECU unplugged.

    The system uses a torque sensor built into the steering rack to detect how hard you are turning the wheel and in what direction. The ECU multiplies that by a number and adds that much force from the electric motor, as if you are stronger than you are.

    The torque sensor in the gen 1 steering rack has had problems since the early years. It was replaced with a different, no-moving-contacts design in gen 2. If the torque sensor is giving a spurious reading that you are turning the wheel to the left, say, the ECU will use the steering motor to do that for you.
     
  5. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    Have just checked that - I couldn’t find the ECU (found a diagram saying it is under the steering column, and found a few plugs behind the glovebox) so : I found the EMPS relay under the bonnet, and pulled that - I get a red triangle after a PS warning, and steering is very heavy!

    Unfortunately, the problem persists even with the PS disabled (this might be a good thing cost-wise, depending on what else is going on!

    I am sure I am not imagining the front wheels being slightly splayed out (negative camber), but I might be imagining it.

    The worst thing is that this has been progressive, going from ‘I’m going to need a wheel alignment’ yesterday, to ‘this isn’t right’ this morning, to ‘I will take the back roads these last 7 miles so I can drive slowly’. Whatever it is, it is worsening progressively, giving zero chance to get home if I was to try.

    I am somewhere safe, and will try to get it checked out; am waiting on someone for a meeting (unrelated) before I can phone/ hopefully find a garage to get it checked out. Annoyingly it is now midday on Friday
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The diagram might be right for some other Prius generation. Have to be careful where to find diagrams like that.

    In gen 1, the steering ECU is right behind the glove box. It and the ECM are right next to each other against the right side of the car. The steering ECU has fewer wires (and about four of them are pretty thick).
     
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  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The OP seems to have stripped their model and location details from their profile, but I'm pretty sure they are NZ-based, so the Gen 1 will be a RHD JDM model. Location of ECUs may very well be different to where a US Prius owner might expect to find them.
     
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  8. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    (Regarding location / model info - can you see my signature? if it is hidden, there may be a glitch on the forum somewhere?)

    I am in NZ, and it is a RHD JDM NWH11; I couldn’t identify the ECU, and did wonder how much they ‘reverse’ parts for RHD models; the centre console is ‘perfect’ for LHD and RHD, but I remember some UK Fords where the centre console is angled towards the driver to a degree, so would take more work to change between LHD/ RHD;

    I got the problem solved! I still think the front wheels have more ‘negative camber’ compared to several other cars I checked (parked nearby), and the front wheels were a bit more worn down on the inside, suggesting this. My fear was the negative camber was new, and representing something bad (progressive failure of something linking them together);

    It turned out to be … a bad tyre. I had checked the tyres and wheel bolts multiple times as I headed, ever more slowly, towards my destination;

    I suspected delamination after a lot more searching online, but couldn’t find anything obvious (I recall a new tyre developing a ‘golf ball’ in the middle of the tread, on parent’s car, many years ago.

    It turned out there was delamination extending around half the circumference of the tyre, but it started and stopped so gradually that it could only be seen by putting the car on a lift, and rotating the front tyres, specifically looking for abnormalities.

    I got two new tyres, and the car feels ‘like new’; it always had a slight shudder at various speeds, but that is gone completely now, and the car is so much nicer to drive! It got through 3 annual safety checks with (less well developed) delamination - and I go to the government transport agency annual check centre rather than the local ones - so they are thorough!

    The key symptom, in retrospect, was that the car pulled to the left. Every car I have had pulls to the left (would be pulling right in the US) due to road camber etc. The bad tyre was the front *right*, and the tyre had a slightly larger circumference due to the delamination, so overall;

    - light vibration at 50mph (only one specific speed), like a slightly unbalanced tyre, for years
    - car pulled to the left slightly more than is normal - for years (so … it pulled ‘away’ from the bad (expanded) thre
    - during the final journey, the vibration began to worsen. I checked steering play, wheel bolts etc - nil abnormal, so I drove increasingly slowly to get to my destination.

    Relevant history : purchased in 2019 with faulty battery - it had been well cared for, and was parked in a carpeted garage!). Pandemic hit, so stayed in my garage for 1.5 years, at which point I rebuilt the battery with NWH20 cells. Used for local driving mainly, so very few miles done until the last few days, so tyre ageing likely played a part!
     
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes, I can see your signature. It was your profile info (on the left side bar) where there is no longer location or vehicle info. The vehicle info is not so important, as that can be deduced from your signature by combining the forum you've posted in and your location.

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