Featured Nvidia’s ChatGPT moment for self-driving

The thing is both my wife and I have very similar tastes. We both would love to have an old VW. Yet, despite all the mud I've slung at EV's being boring appliances, we both also entertain the idea of owning an EV again. There was something about that 2013 Nissan Leaf that we both found charming.

 

I used to start my DECUS talks with a chart like this:

• Hardware - the thing, like a 2019 Model 3 with HW 3.0
• Software - the latest release, firmware 2025:44.25.4 and FSD 12.6 4
• Peopleware - teaching operator, too often neglected leading to "human error"

I bring this up because there are so many contradictory claims about self driving that often show ignorance of what it is and what it does. Certainly there is a learning curve about how to drive "Full Self Driving." This is complicated by the decade old, self driving layers:

Experience from 2016 to today has shown this model is useless for teaching how to drive a self-driving vehicle:

• Mobileye - BMW i3-REx and Prius Prime
• Autopilot - 2019 Tesla Model 3, from 2019
• Full Self Driving (FSD) - 2019 Tesla Model 3, current

Today 99% of my driving uses FSD using the navigation inputs, spoofing the "nag", and occasional manual overrides. I suspect other "self driving" systems have similar, operator inputs or face significant limitations. For example, comparing WAMO vs FSD, one recent YouTube revealed FSD was significantly faster.

So I welcome other driver assistance systems as March 2019 AutoPilot saved me and family in April during a medical event. Any automated driving system no matter how simple or complex will on the whole be safer than human drivers by themselves. There will be incidents like the Arizona fatality and dragging a body in San Francisco. But no one notices when they silently work as designed.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob, did you forget Firmware?

Oh, that reminds me. It is patch Tuesday.

 

I think I listed the firmware under the pie chart. Regardless, the scariest people who showed up when I was working announced, “We’re here to update your Windows PC.”

Every update meant the things I mostly used would be broken. So I’d have to waste time from my regular job to figure out how to use the ‘updated’ but now broken PC.

It always made me appreciate my personal Macintoshes … even across multiple CPU changes!

Bob Wilson

 

I seem to remember previous descriptions of this event, in which AP enabled the driver to continue driving through numerous repeated microsleep events, when the proper safe driving response would have been to find a place to stop and take a break.

In my area in April 2024, AP or FSD (various news reports are inconsistent) killed the motorcyclist ahead when its Tesla driver used it to mentally disengage from driving and perform an unrelated task. The cyclist's family just filed suit this month. [Discussed in a previous thread here, with more new links.]

That claim ignores ADAS systems that enable or encourage driver mental disengagement or misbehavior, but are not ready for real autonomous driving.

Until true driverless systems become widely available on the consumer marker, human factors engineering of these systems remains critically important.

 

This false assumption claims the driver is aware of the micro sleep event before it happens.

Bob Wilson

 

Did you stop after the first micro sleep event?

 

If everyone followed the safe there would be no drivig when sick, no driving in bad weather, etc. No old drivers with slow reactions, or young drivers with no experience and lots of hormones. Every safety device added has a down side of less safe driving behaviour, so the net effect is less than assumed. That doesn't mean anti lock brakes, airbags, camera systems don't reduce accidents, but they don't eliminate them. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Fatalities are back down to pre pandemic levels.

 

Just last week I was reading an article about how to talk to one's parents when it's time to take away their keys.

Personally, my own driving mistakes bother me. I feel like I have to be a perfectionist or I could cause someone's death, and it would be my fault for making a simple little mistake. How could I live with myself if I ran over some small child or creamed into a car with a family in it?

At the same time, I feel like most drivers just do not care enough about how they drive. People don't use blinkers, don't obey speed limits, don't stop at stop signs, etc. They go into microsleep events but then keep on driving as if it will never happen again. Back in November I had a guy in a pickup pull right out in front of me at a stoplight. I slammed on the brakes and honked my horn. I had green, he had red, and it hadn't changed recently either. Fortunately, a police officer was right behind me and pulled the guy over.

I love cars, but often I feel that we shouldn't allow people in general (including me) to drive, at least not on public systems of streets and highways for personal transportation. Leave driving to emergency vehicles, well trained drivers who drive public transportation systems with backups, such as pilot and copilot, as well as to people who sign a disclaimer and assume personal liability for driving for recreational reasons on tracks and trails not open to the general public. If you want to get around, ride a bike or take a bus or cab with mandatory pilot and copilot drivers.

 

I stopped at the next, open, gas station. My narcoleptic wife told me about them. I was not aware of them!

The April 2019 Autopilot worked perfectly to keep us safe and able to reach the gas station. I paid $1,200 for that option the month before. Best safety feature I’ve ever bought.

Bob Wilson

 

the horse is already out of the barn. geographically, we've built a society based on automobiles, guns, alcohol and other drugs

 

I was subscribed to two, Tesla specific forums. Until I shared my AutoPilot experience, they were pretty much identical:

• Tesla Motors Club - wide spread condemnations that I should not have a driver's license.
  • I no longer follow this forum because blaming the victim instead of a practical, technical response was beyond their understanding.
• Tesla Owners Forum - technical discussions about how AutoPilot worked.
  • Turns out, they have technologists who address not only safety but other aspects of improved Tesla ownership.
  • I continue to pay my annual subscription to this forum and get updates that improve my Tesla experience.

I prefer to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Bob Wilson

 

Very true. And we ain't getting the horse back into the barn any time soon, if ever.

Sorry, maybe I was a bit harsh in my post. I shouldn't say something that could insinuate that you, specifically, should stop driving. I had read that article on talking to one's parents because I have parents and they are getting up there in age, and, well, let me just say, other reasons pertinente to my parents, not you.

I'm glad that things have worked out for you.

But what about others? What about my parents? What about me? I confess that this summer I about hit a car as I was going down a highway at 65 mph in a company vehicle that I had never driven before. I was trying to figure out how to navigate on the screen to get something to work, I can't quite remember what, when all of the sudden I looked up and saw a car stopped right in front of me to turn left. I slammed on the brakes. I would have hit the car hadn't the car turned left as oncoming traffic had coincidentally ceased at that very moment.

And that's not the only thing I've messed up while driving. I'm not sure what "microsleep event" actually means, but there have been times I've started falling asleep and suddenly found myself either in the other lane or going off the road.

So, question: what should one do about such things? Maybe I'm the one who should stop driving.

 

Full (or partial) Self Driving like EVs are not for everyone. There is a significant learning curve which is why I try to leave “lesson’s learned” here. It is a steep learning curve.

Anyone within 200 miles of Huntsville AL is free to PM me and we’ll coordinate as visit and mentored introduction. Two, 45 minutes sessions is enough in my Tesla. Back seat observers are welcome.

Some reading this note won’t be interested. This is for the curious who enjoy an “E” ticket ride.

Bob Wilson

 

Also a significant price. It would cost me $624 per month to get the cheapest Model 3 and add full self-driving on top of that. And that's with an 84-month car mortgage. That's a bit out of my price range.

I wonder if you can get full self-driving on used Teslas.

 

Only from private or 3d party sellers. I was looking at a 2022 with FSD two years ago over in Charlotte NC for $22-23,000.

I was looking for a 2024 (still am) to replace my 2017 BMW i3 if I can find one priced to sell.

Bob Wilson