Featured Toyota makes progress on all-solid-state batteries

A lot can happen in 4 years. I would not be surprised if the schedule delay and/or other geopolitical events forces the project to be changed or even cancelled. GM has announced to kill the New Bolt (again) already. And it just began production. GM Will Kill the Chevrolet Bolt EV (Again) by 2028, Says Report

 

It may help to explain the "dendrite" problem that makes solid state batteries so hard:


During charging, layers of lithium (or other metals) are deposited into microscopic sized, crystal needles. These grow to penetrate the separator and short the cell. An NiMH battery uses hydrogen ions which can not form a crystal at ordinary temperatures. A point electric field becomes preferential for ion deposits. So this suggests several approaches:

• non-cyrstalizing metals - hydrogen or liquid metals at higher temperatures.
• strong separators - in theory, a separator can pass ions but not permit a needle pointed dendrite to pass through
• alloy electro-positive metals - if the deposit voltage is close enough, two metals will disrupt dendrite formation but there may be issues getting intro carbon holding them without excessive mechanical stress and strain

Solid state batteries are a technical nightmare and I wish anyone working on them “Good Luck!”

Bob Wilson

 

Solid state batteries will be like Li-ion when the Volt and Leaf first arrived, expensive. They'll be coming to market against much cheaper LFP and even Na-ion. They will only be used in high end, long range BEVs, and then there will be established semi-solid state batteries on the market.

Toyota is putting them in hybrids because of lower per car cost and ease of replacing with failures. They talked of using it hybrids first because the battery layers could crack.

Aside, @bisco reported this Bolt was always going to be a short production run. This one still doesn't use GM's BEV platform.

The moving of ICE models into that US plant is likely the actual news.

 

That seems to be a sensible approach and getting real world time in the saddle to iron-out kinks. A hybrid can limp back home, where a BEV would be F.O.R.D.. (found on road dead; as opposed to the brand of the same name sake).

 

Meanwhile: Daily Automotive News

TESLA MASS PRODUCES DRY ELECTRODES TO SLASH COSTS BY $1 BILLION

Elon Musk

Making the dry electrode process work at scale, which is a major breakthrough in lithium battery production technology, was incredibly difficult. Congratulations to the engineering, production and supply chain teams and our strategic partner suppliers for this excellent achievement!​

Tesla and its supplier partners have scored a major battery achievement, according to Elon Musk. He says they’ve been able to make the dry electrode process work at scale, calling it a major breakthrough in lithium battery production technology. Instead of applying the cathode material with liquid solvents, which requires massive drying ovens, it’s applied in a powder form. The process can slash factory space by up to 90%, increase output and significantly cut energy costs, which the company previously estimated could save it $1 billion. Tesla said some versions of the Cybertruck were supposed to get the batteries sometime last year, but now that it can mass produce them, they should spread to other models. And previous reports indicated that the Robotaxi and/or Cybercab would feature these batteries, which could be crucial in Tesla’s ability to hit its goal of making 2 million Cybercabs a year. ​

Elimination of the "wet" coatings is a major production improvement but my understanding is a small amount of electrolyte is still needed for the chemistry to work. Previous needs to evaporate and condense the electrolyte are no longer needed. Past technical presentations indicate 1/3d the floor space. Production yields remain an open question.

Bob Wilson

 

Buy tesla stock!

 

I leave that to others as I have lost confidence in the CEO. He has become distracted and uses TSLA as a "cash cow" to fund his other hobbies.

I am more interested in automotive like the "SCOUT" even though wholly-owned by VW. Some of the Asian companies sound good too.

Bob Wilson

 

Seems like small scale Plant 2 expansion of capacity for 2027 is the only relevent effort to measure their work by... The rest, especially mass production is just pie in the skie. Though this schedule is way less delusional than the BS that Toyota Marketing was promising this past Fall.

 

This is why we use Li-ion batteries, because the ions don't crystalize, but rather, move around freely.

This was a problem with lithium metal batteries.

The same problem and solution apply to both wet and solid-state batteries.

 

Source: Battery Power Online | A Look Inside Your Battery: Watching the Dendrites Grow

. . .
Among the reported incidents, internal short circuits caused by lithium dendrite formation were one of the reasons for battery failure. A Li-ion battery operating under abnormal conditions, such as overcharging or lower temperature charging, can lead to a harmful phenomenon called lithium dendrite growth or lithium plating. Lithium dendrites are metallic microstructures that form on the negative electrode during the charging process. Lithium dendrites are formed when extra lithium ions accumulate on the anode surface and cannot be absorbed into the anode in time. They can cause short circuits and lead to catastrophic failures and even fires. Several Samsung Galaxy Note 7 batteries caught on fire in 2016, and the investigation revealed the mechanism that lithium dendrites caused an internal short circuit.
. . .​

Bob Wilson

 

Yes. Lithium-ion batteries also aren't perfect. That's kind of the main reason not everyone is driving an EV.

But at any rate, a well designed lithium ion battery does what I said, it moves ions, puts them into latices, and that, in theory, should keep dendrites from forming.

If you're really afraid of dendrites and lithium batteries catching on fire, then maybe it you ought to stop driving a li-ion powered EV. I'm just saying.

 

Perhaps technically, technically yes. But I haven't heard anyone refer to lithium-metal batteries as lithium-ion, as the lithium isn't stored at both sides in ion form (solid metal is not a pile of ions).

But at any rate, that wasn't the point. The point was dendrites are a problem in lithium-metal batteries that keeps them from being rechargeable, as there is no lattice that can absorb and park the ions, and saying that solid-state batteries will suffer the same problem just isn't necessarily true.

 

Ok. I don't know if you're just trying to argue against everything I said or just confuse everyone.

A well designed battery has "parking spaces" for the lithium atoms to park on both the anode and the cathode. Yes, abnormal charging conditions or a poorly designed battery allows them to start stacking up and sticking to each other, forming dendrites. The same happens with pure lithium metal anodes, and which is why they are not suitable for recharging.