A duty to indulge

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by zenMachine, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    I'd drink to that but this new medication I'm taking prevents it. :(

    So instead I'll have a smoothy! :D
     
  2. brick

    brick Active Member

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    My thoughts on the matter are that we as a culture have forgotten what's important and replaced it with useless distractions to make us feel productive. Look at the things that surround us: fancy houses, fancy cars, big screen TVs, DVD players, 600 channels of digital cable, a nice green lawn, all of which my generation has been programmed to want since birth. A Russian coworker pointed this out to me the other day and it hit me like a bullet. What he noticed was that his kids, when they entered the US education system ~10 years ago, immediately found themselves putting everything in terms of money and shiny objects, and they thought it was strange. I resisted the concept at first, but he was right. Kids don't learn math, science, history, etc. so that they can grow up to and contribute to the well being of mankind. Instead they learn so that they can go grow up to make even more money than their parents and have all the great stuff and more even earlier in life.

    We have no purpose except to consume. I believe that this is taking a massive toll not only on our economy and our planet, but our psyche. How else do you explain reality TV and video game addiction? Humans have these big brains for a reason and bad things happen when they don't put them to use! The only time we really fire them up is when there is some common threat and we have to get our butts in gear to stay ahead. Look at all of the stuff that came out of the cold war: math and science were pushed hard because we were at war, dammit, and the Reds were gonna eat our lunch if we didn't out-think them! And we got some pretty neat things out of that. It gave us manned space flight and kicked off the drive for the technology that we enjoy right now.

    But that's over, so what are we going to do? I guess we can just make money. What are we going to do with it? Consume. There's no sense just leaving all that money in the bank to rot, is there? Which brings us to the part where more consumption is evidence of making lots of money, which is the way our society has told us to justify our existence. So even if you don't make a whole bunch of money, you have to consume as much as you can in order to look like you're pulling your weight or else that's it: "off the island!" Fast forward to the current state of our middle class: credit card debt and foreclosures.

    And what really kills me is how lazy we've all become as a result. (Myself, I'm only just beginning to wake up from what feels like a long nap for the first 25 years of my life.) If we're just supposed to make money and consume, what role does work play? Well, work is a pain in the neck. "Nobody likes their job." It gets in the way of consuming. So the vast majority of us will work just hard enough to make payments on the 42" plasma display. Few will work because it is has intrinsic importance; because it will benefit the well-being of our fellow man. (He's got to get his own 42" plasma display, right?) Working for that reason doesn't accomplish the mission wealth accumulation on which we have been sent.

    So there you have it, my explanation of where we derailed: we have a hard time grasping the true meaning of progress and had to generate the current American Dream as a substitute, creating a vast sea of wasted human potential. If we put men on the moon and rovers on Mars despite that, can you guys imagine what this solar system would look like if we weren't so busy watching the tube? It's going to be such a hard path to break, and we may not make it out. We might not be able to trade our objects for real accomplishments. But to me it's more than worth a shot. I think it's the only way we'll ever be really, honestly happy.
     
  3. PriuStorm

    PriuStorm Senior Member

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    No lack of raw materials, eh? All for continued consumerism, eh? How does that hold up with your intro statement here

    What exactly are you saving while you're out there consuming to the max?
     
  4. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Good to hear we live in a global bottomless pit of resources. Of course space travel will soon be so cheap that people from Ethiopia and Rwanda will be able to afford to travel to mars to find work in the mineral exploitation there. They will be able to take excess carbon from the atmosphere with them in their hand luggage. I wonder what the price of oil will be when bringing it from the moon or mars is a viable proposition

    ?:confused:
     
  5. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    How about the 200 acres of forestland I own ?

    Then of course there is the fact that I believe that space exploration & exploitation can ultimately save humanity and most animal species

    I think that makes up for me burning a few more gallons of gas
     
  6. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    Millions maybe billions will be able to travel into space very cheaply on this baby
    http://www.liftport.com/

    AS for oil, why import oil when HE3 is SO much more profitable & cleaner for the environment
     

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  7. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    It doesn't. Damaging current life on the hopes that your ideas will produce someting tangible is not admirable in any way. Now if you were reducing consumption and the million other things that go along with trying to help people and the rest of the biological world then I couldn't attack your ideology. Instead you do not reduce consumption, flaunt that sort of lifestyle, and espouse ideas that are not monetarily nor ecologically feasible. Again, this is 19th century thinking at best.
     
  8. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    How does space exploration destroy life ?

    and how do you intend to reduce consumption w a world population that is out of control ?

    and now that China is the fastest growing consumer economy and probably the world's greatest polluter HOW do you intend to tell them to NOT consume so much and have them take you seriously ?
     
  9. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Your lifestyle is what is degrading life, not your direct idea of space exploration.

    I am not focuing on other countries, I am focuing on myself and my country. Lead by example. You seem to subscribe to the "well I might as well do it since everyone else is" mentality. It takes us back to the trajedy of the commons again. China has a large portion of their society that wants to see sustainable development and has the fastest growing sect of environmental and social justice organizations. I've read and heard enough speeches where those in power in Chinese government will not take our advice seriously because it is very evident that we do not head our own advice. It's like a mother telling a child not to do drugs while she takes another hit from the crack pipe. Those of us who thrive off the "arms war" mentality cannot see this and they are the one who provoke this attitude of "use it all before China and India does". It's all crap and the winner of such a mess only suceeds in being the last to rule over a dead world. It is much better IMO to work together to correct the wrongs rather than live in a state of fear that pushes us to rape rob and pillage every resource so our nation is the most sucessful. IMO screw the nationalism idea and lets work on securing the future of our species. Your ideas have consistantly led to failure of societies in the long term, my idea could be considered too idealistic yet it has worked in nature for over 3.5 billion years.
     
  10. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    China is one of the most corrupt countries in business and politics

    They have a LONG record of human and animal rights abuses

    I agree on working together but I dont go to the extreme of George Soros and the Dhimmicrats who want to do away w US sovereignty & put every country under the rule of a UN type govt
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    True that, I just watched the documentary on the total history of the great wall. Emperor Chin was a bastard. lol

    I'm not 100% sure about going to a complete UN style government but I do lean more towards that than continuing on the path our admins are leading us.
     
  12. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    I agree - unfortunately our consumerism (myself included) continue to foster this monster. And not only is our consumerism supporting this corrupt country, we have also outsourced vast amounts of our productive capacity to a country with virtually no health or worker safety standards, slave labor, and a lack of sensible environmental controls. Plus, many of their industries are directly run by the military.

    So, when someone brings up the issue of over-consumption, this is a particularly troubling aspect. No amount of green forests here will make up for any of that.
     
  13. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    recently there is a backlash against things made in China bcus of their overly lax oversight resulting in toxic toys and other dangerous products

    So maybe we will see some manufacturing jobs come back to the USA or at least come back to NAFTA
     
  14. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Not likely unless the U.S. public decides to spend more money on a quality product and pay the true cost of manufacturing that product.
     
  15. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    A weak dollar may have an impact as well. As the chinese economy grows their exports are going to get less competitive.
     
  16. WARHORSE

    WARHORSE New Member

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    watch the EU economy implode as nobody buys their stuff anymore :)

    Maybe the Swiss won't be so arrogant now
     
  17. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Their exports are pretty healthy actually.
     
  18. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    I'm looking for recent statistics on major central banks' holdings of euros vs dollars. Any links would be appreciated.
     
  19. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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  20. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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