Robert A. Heinlein wrote a novel titled: "For Us, the Living", which was one of his first, and was less a novel than a vehicle for expressing his alarm at things like the economy, trade deficit, and governmental control of private affairs. It's well worth picking up (library, used book store, powells.com), and reading just for that. I find it amazing at how accurately he foresaw the difficulties that the economy was heading into.
Toyota produces most of their product in the US? On a dollar scale they actually produce more of their product in japan. They produce no Lexuses on US soil and last year imported almost 1.2 million vehicles form Japan. Use whatever figure you use for the average cost of goods sold, and the number will stagger you.
malorn, no response? ok... ya i can see your non-point and your position... when it gets right down to it... where the money is coming from and where it goes simply cannot be quantified very easily can it? a small handful of entities control a vast majority of the money and NONE these entities knows any boundaries
FTD - FT900: U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services Its all here. The automotive trade deficit with just toyota is approaching half a trillion dollars with just toyota over the last 20 years. Moving u.s. forward.
That is what we are continully told, NAFTA will help the US, trade with China helps the US, Toyota is helping the US economy.
We are now a debtor nation, that is why. China or Japan could pull out its "investment" in the US and our economy would come crumbling down. Do you think the trade deficit helps or hurts the average americans wages. I auto workers or textile workers, or furniture workers(two industries completely wiped out) are being well-paid and jobs are plentiful, do you think that would help your wages or hurt your wages?
i work in a job where i have to prove my worth every day. if i do not do my job well, i get nothing for it. not even minimum wage. i get ZERO but why is that?? i have worked for my present company 5 years, i am one of their top employees... dont i deserve something for that??? i feel that i go the extra mile and no one there disputes that... so if i have a bad day, shouldnt i still at least get minimum wage for my time? well, i dont get a thing if i dont produce. nothing at all. but i am still expected to be at my desk on time... following my daily schedule... and yes sometimes working for nothing. well, ok, i do get something, they pay half my medical insurance premium, half my SSN taxes, and give me 4 weeks paid time off every year (paid based on average earnings mind you, no set amount) but all in all, the company i work for feels they owe ME NOTHING FOR PAST PERFORMANCE... now malorn, that is really strange to you isnt it?? that is not the american way is it? we will never survive that way will we?
So I am on the gravy train as a car dealer? i am not sure how your analogy is applicable to the trade mess? Do you think what has happened to this country and is currently happening where whole industires are targeted and systematically wiped out is fair or free trade? If it doesn't mean anything wahy does a company like toyota continually portray themselves as American, why do they distribute talking points to their dealers which are really propoganda. I am not talking about quality or style talking points, i am talking about jobs, sourcing and the like. How many people does toyota employ in the United States? How many in japan?
well, i can easily believe that you are "not sure". that is readily apparent in all you say and do. i guess that i also need to ask you... what do we owe GM for what they did 50 YEARS ago?
What are you saying i am not sure of? Is what GM did 50 years ago relevant to todays world? If so, is what toyota did 60 years ago relevant? How many countries would let a trade deficit like ours continue?
I am not sure what you mean, but if you are going to hold 50 year old history against GM, how can you let toyota's history slide?
I love how the same people that will go on and on about "free market economy" will then turn right around and cry foul when someone in another country can make a superior product for less money. Not necessarily talking about anyone on this list, mostly my father-in-law The fact that Toyota can consistently build a product that is cleaner, more efficient, more reliable, generally a better value, more appealing, and still make money despite using American labor and dealing with the very weak buying power of the dollar just illustrates how poorly the US auto makers are being run. By worrying about nothing but the short-term bottom line as mandated by their shareholders, many US companies have painted themselves into a corner of stale technology, workforces with 0 company loyalty, and customers who are sick of their inferior products. They've gorged themselves at the expense of long term growth for years, and it may finally be catching up with them. I honestly hope companies like GM can pull their heads out and get themselves back on track, as obviously there will be a lot of problems for a lot of people otherwise. At the same time, I don't see why the American consumers & taxpayers should be pumping money into them before they demonstrate that they are changing. Otherwise, what is the incentive to do anything other than business as usual? It would be like building giant hybrid SUVs with marginally better mileage and calling them "green". Oh wait.... In the 90's taxpayers put over $1B and the capabilities of some of the worlds finest research labs into helping give American auto makers a big headstart into the next generation of fuel efficient vehicles. All of the big three had 70+ mpg hybrids fully operational by ~2000. Guess what happened in 2001? They chucked pretty much all of it in the bin, because what the "public wants" is full sized SUVs and Muscle Cars. Coincidentally these are the products with the highest profit margins. General Motors Precept - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Ford Prodigy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Dodge Intrepid ESX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Rob
A "free-market economy" is a complete misnomer. Protected home-markets, currency manipulation, patent infringement, government subsidies, government provided health-care and pension plans etc ensure there is no true "free-trade" or "free-markets" let alone "fair-trade"
whooosssshhh!!! not that is not an airplane dude... ok, i dont know why i bother but, can we agree no one just appears all of a sudden right? we all have a past. that past plays a big role in where we are today... now obviously the past does not mean everything but it is important. can you at least understand that?? can you also understand that a company of this stature does not change overnight? that you either plan carefully years in advance, adjust those plans wisely based on changing market conditions all the while making sure that their business model is a sound one that will allow the company to at least HAVE A CHANCE to succeed. so lets look at Toyota and GM and the question i posed to you... i am sorry if you are having a bad day and feel that you are being attacked and your only recourse is to be defensive about everything. but here we have two companies moving in opposite directions and they have been unwavering in their march. one company proving themselves daily knowing that what they did in the past will not help them because there are people like you just waiting for one little mis-step so they can lambaste them. then we have another company that has failed us for DECADES... there commercials portraying apple pie, summer picnics and classic rock and roll... not sure how that will carry my nice person around town, but that is all i really remember about the company or their commercials... so we should buy what and why??
I agree, they do all that. And yet their cars still suck. I assume we're talking about GM and how they don't build cars in the U.S. anymore, right?
My biggest beef with toyota is with their "marketing" , it is ingenious but completely misleading. As a company they have cost more US jobs over the last 20 years than any other single company. If they were considered as a country in the trade data, they would cause the 6th or 7th largest trade deficit with the United States but have now convinced many people that they are as American as Ford or Chevy or Dodge. I have been in enough toyota showrooms and mystery shopped them to know the talking points are coming from the same place and that is the mother country in toyota city. Now the Chinese have copied the Japanese plan for entry and domination of US markets and the sliding of the US economy is increasing every day.
oh, i guess i should say that my company also pays my phone bill. i spend most of time on the phone talking to people... on average, i will hear "thank god you speak english!! at least i can understand you!" about 3-5 times a day. so i will say, that a LOT of people in my line of work has been outsourced to india. and was outsourced by american companies who are profitable, have trade surpluses and pay out regular dividends, etc. my company is very profitable and they are because they react to change and do it very very quickly. my company is profitable because they realized as has other profitable companies that the old way is exactly that... old...stale, unprofitable. they did not want to be unprofitable, so they said, to make money, we need to have something that someone wanted. so how do we do that and do it one of the most competitive businesses in the world? well, the first thing they did was to scratch GM's board of directors off the hire list...
someone mentioned that there are several thousand well paid toyota workers in the U.S. most of them former GM employees who are smart enough to bail out while the bailing was good. your reply was to say that more toyotas are built in japan than the us and that was your response to them and in your mind, im sure that is all you needed to say... well, i should certainly hope that more toyotas are built in japan than here. since they sell more toyotas in japan than they do here. toyota may import a lot of cars to the us, but their us sales is not the bulk of what they do.
Toyota is celebrating it's 50th Anniversary now. 60 years ago it was pots and pans. Yet your cumulative numbers go back 20 years when Toyota was just ramping up US production. Today is much different and expanding every year. I don't have time to sift the data in your link, but it notes that the most recent trend is increasing exports. Here's some Toyota manufacturing data you might be interested in: http://pressroom.toyota.com/manuf/NAoperations-map/manufacturing-chart.pdf Toyota/Lexus/Scion Pressroom: North American Manufacturing Milestones Incidentally, now that GM announced 74,000 hourly buyouts, can the dealer buyouts be far behind?
