We SO need a change in leadership.

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Godiva, Jun 27, 2008.

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  1. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    HVDC. It's the most efficient way to transmit electricity over long distances.

    Wikipedia
     
    #121 tripp, Jul 1, 2008
  2. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    South Dakota and Colorado are starting to address the transmission problem. I'm sure that ND is thinking about this too. There's just too much energy there to ignore for long.

    Full article
     
    #122 tripp, Jul 1, 2008
  3. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I'm not sure about the current law, but when Pete Wilson deregulated utilites (and opened the door for Enron to price fix and create a faux shortage) I believe all of the utilities had to get out of the production business and sell their stuff. They became only middle men. The current law demands that they provide a 20% of green power by a 2010, but I don't believe they are required to produce it. It could be they are still barred from production, only distribution.

    This does not explain why OTHER utilties in CA do buy excess power from *their* PV customers. I think it's a matter of cheap. Why should they pay what they can get for free? I guess they don't think adding up all of the excesses from all of the PV people would help them meet their 20% by 2010 goal.

    And yes, it is totally stupid.

    Massive Solar plan linked to SDGE
     
    #123 Godiva, Jul 1, 2008
  4. PriuStorm

    PriuStorm Senior Member

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    I don't understand... if they buy my excess PV electricity, they aren't producing it. What's the problem there?
     
    #124 PriuStorm, Jul 1, 2008
  5. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    #125 icarus, Jul 1, 2008
  6. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    What is actually happening is the roof owners are not leasing the space to a power company, but using the power for themselves. As the cost of panels comes down, it comes down for both the building owners and the power companies....and it is very hard for a utility to come up with a business plan that saves the owner significantly more than other independent businesses doing the same installations.
     
    #126 FL_Prius_Driver, Jul 1, 2008
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I don't know. But somehow I would be in partnership with them I guess. Perhaps because I'm sending it back through all of their stuff connected to my house and same way I'm using it from them at night. Or something.

    Yes, personally I think it is the lamest of excuses and doesn't make any sense at all.

    But....the law in California says they are not required to purchase the excess, so they don't. Unless that changes....they never will. And until they do, it is a deterrent to homeowners putting up the money up front, hiring a contracting, getting permits (actually the contract does this) and having the system installed. The Government will only rebate a system sized to what you used last year so you can't put in the biggest system you can afford to sell the excess back.

    Yes, it's all a big rip-off. And you better believe the utilities had a hand it that little provision capping the size and denying payback. That was the delay in getting the million solar roofs legislation passing in California. Guess which political party was largely behind the utilities in delaying the legislation unless that little provision was included?
     
    #127 Godiva, Jul 1, 2008
  8. PriuStorm

    PriuStorm Senior Member

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    Well, I agree it's a big rip-off. I haven't done the calcs, but I'm curious... am I allowed to sell to my neighbor? Whether it's economically feasible is another story, I know.
     
    #128 PriuStorm, Jul 1, 2008
  9. KayakerNC

    KayakerNC Member

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    Quote:
    Just thinking about this, and probably wrong, but if Solar gives DC power how would you transmit this any distance?
    HVDC. It's the most efficient way to transmit electricity over long distances.

    OK, but that won't get the power from your roof panels back to the power company. Not too many HVDC lines in my neighborhood.
     
    #129 KayakerNC, Jul 1, 2008
  10. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I'm not sure. But my meter spins backwards when the sun is out.

    And when there's a blackout, my system is supposed to be shut off so workers don't get electrocuted. So I'm assuming I'm sending juice back upstream through the system.

    I believe the job of the inverter is to convert the DC to AC. Or something.
     
    #130 Godiva, Jul 1, 2008
  11. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Oh sorry. I was thinking about large solar installations in BFE (don't know why, you didn't lead me there, that just what popped into me heed). Your DC runs through an inverter where it's converted to AC so that YOU can use it in your house. It can also flow into the grid from there.
     
    #131 tripp, Jul 2, 2008
  12. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    They don't own any production capability, but they own the grid, so yeah, it'd be a partnership I suppose. In the future that might be how all utilities evolve.
     
    #132 tripp, Jul 2, 2008
  13. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Follow my link in post 121 (I think!) about HVDC. It explains laymans terms how DC is rectified to AC within the grid.

    Icarus
     
    #133 icarus, Jul 2, 2008
  14. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    First there was the reversal on the extra general the army wanted to oversee purchasing. And now this.

    The White House has reversed the moratorium on Solar Applications.

    "The government said Wednesday it is calling off a recently announced moratorium on applications to build solar plants on public lands."

    Of course it doesn't mean the Bureau of Land Management will approve any of the applications. It will simply continue to accept them.

    "Solar industry officials and environmental groups agreed that BLM, which has granted numerous leases to the oil and gas industry, needs to move faster on the solar proposals."

    You don't think the oil industry has any influence with the BLM to stall or deny solar applications for public land.....do you?
     
    #134 Godiva, Jul 3, 2008
  15. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Maybe, maybe not. But they will probably get their permits processed first, which will delay the solar and geothermal permits' processing.
     
    #135 tripp, Jul 3, 2008
  16. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    The BLM is probably filled with former coal/gas/oil folks so I'm sure there's a lot of back-scratching going on there.
     
    #136 tripp, Jul 3, 2008
  17. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    This is what I meant by there has to be a change in lackeys, not just the elected folks.
     
    #137 Godiva, Jul 3, 2008
  18. Abu Garcia

    Abu Garcia Active Member

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    We should have started drilling 10 yrs ago in Anwar and the coasts. Get more oil until alternatives are in place. The Dems will not allow it and we will all suffer because of this.
     
    #138 Abu Garcia, Jul 8, 2008
  19. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Wonderful first post. :rolleyes:

    No, the Dems are not to blame and your answer is not the one that help us now nor would it have helped if we had enacted it 10 years ago. I'd like to think that our incredible inefficiency is to blame....

    So many people think obtaining more resources is the answer for everything. :rolleyes:
     
    #139 F8L, Jul 8, 2008
  20. Abu Garcia

    Abu Garcia Active Member

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    GM and other auto makers dropped the ball on this one. If we can land a man on the moon back in the 60's, then there should have been some resolve long ago to require alternatives to oil and maybe we would not be in this mess. With all of our technical advances, you would think that something would change, but oil is big business and money.
     
    #140 Abu Garcia, Jul 8, 2008
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