Is your conservation someone else's livelihood?

"With over 95 percent of our transportation energy being based on petroleum, oil underlies every aspect of our lives and our growing dependence on it is a clear and present danger to our national security." Internal Combustion by Edwin Black--Home Page

We need to make our move now. Continue to use what we have sparingly while developing and implementing alternatives.

This country was based on new ideas. wind, solar, nuclear, coal, oil in my back yard. The key is technological advancement and refinement of. We have to keep pushing the envelope.

The world is tied to our economic system. Where have I heard this before, "United we stand" July 1942: United We Stand

 

So after the popularity of the horseless carriage.......we were supposed to continue to buy buggy whips because whip makers had families they had to feed?

 

I don't believe it is a no win situation.
If we can adapt to the comming storms (GW, peak oil, etc) BEFORE they get here we will be far better off than if we wait and try to react after the storm hits.
I don't believe our society will, as a whole. Some people will, which may mitigate the situation for them personally. But society as a whole will be in a world of hurt.
Less planning means more hurt.
More planning means less hurt.

 

It might work out to be a good thing. Our consumer society has most of us convinced that we need more and more, while in fact it's not true. In fact most of us would be happier if we had a little less in the area of material possessions but were a little richer in the area of family time, vacation, and sitting on the back deck. The front porch would be even better, but that's from an earlier era, when people sat on the front porch and talked to their neighbors. Maybe if we back off a bit on consumption we can all rediscover the front porch.

Tom

 

it's not exactly my duty to support retail and restaurant (and etc) industries with money i don't have.

 

Change is coming whether the neocons want to believe it or not.

Yes there will be pain as some industries greatly reduce (air travel comes to mind), but this will be offset by increases in other industries (rail travel).
If we are on the forefront of innovation we will create jobs exporting "green" tech to other countries. If the hundreds of billions we now send to our "enemies" for oil were spent on home grown energy sources we could create even more jobs. Home grown energy (wind, solar, bio, etc) can not be out sourced to China nor controlled by OPEC.

Or we could bury our heads in the sand and believe Big Oil telling us that the solution is to drill, drill, drill.
Do you give a drug addict more drugs or try to wean him off the drugs, no matter how difficult the transition?

 

The future in a nutshell:
Everyone will have 2,000 square feet of living space, but no one will own a 20,000 square foot house.
Everyone can travel anywhere they want, but no one will own a car.

 

We need conservative, robust, long-term, least cost - end use thinking by investing in small hydro, solar (electricity & hot water), wind, geothermal, efficiency and conservation. Communities need walking & bicycle routes and light electric rail. We need an interstate system for high speed rail. The time to get going on this was 1973. We are way overdue and need to get going.

 

yes, but health insurance is nice. i'll choose that over a big tv in my living room.

 

No. I have no children or grandchildren. That means I'm on my own and will be paying for everything during my retirement. There is no predicting the economy for my retirement. I may need every penny just to maintain my frugal living standards once I stop working. My "vacations" have consisted of attending professional conferences for my job. So I might take a vacation. But I suspect in the world you are envisioning, I won't be able to afford to fly, so I'll never see Egypt or England or Italy. I can forget about Australia or Japan.

I don't own a big screen TV and never will. Won't fit in the cabinet. My TVs are 13 inch. I have a 15 year old one in the living room and a 20 year old one in the computer room I use to edit home video.

There is always something to do on the house. My discretionary income goes into the house. They can't steal the paint off of the walls. They are unlikely to dig up the fruit trees and steal them. I defy anyone to spend the amount of time it would take to un-install the dishwasher and take that.

I imagine if I had discretionary income, I'd spend it on labor and hire someone to do what *I* do...pull weeds, rake, bag, dig, clean etc. It should be pretty easy to find someone, since those waiters who can't find work anymore will probably become gardeners. People may not go out to eat anymore, but plants will always grow.

 

Are you spending less money?

If you're still spending the same amount of money, you're just putting it to different uses and to people with different jobs. Instead of paying Saudi sheiks and supporting their way of life, along with the local waitresses (and the livestock feedlots and shipping industry) when you eat out, you could be paying for a CSA (community-supported agriculture), and saving the rest for solar panel manufacturers, high-efficiency window makers, etc. You're leading people into the jobs of the future.

If oil prices continue to rise faster than we find alternatives, manual labor will once again be cheaper than operating machinery, which could make big changes in textiles, manufacturing, construction, and of course agriculture. Not high-end jobs, but will provide a lot of jobs, allowing people to eat & pay the rent.

Tourism is a big thing for certain areas, and this could really hurt sections that depend on it, such as Caribbean islands. That's unfortunate, and their only alternative is probably agriculture.

 

We will spend roughly the same money. But it will be divided differently.

More of the paycheck will go toward gasoline and food. You can't cut food. You might cut gasoline if you give up your car and take public transportation, or at least reduce car use and increase public transportation use. There's no way I can produce enough food on my land to eliminate buying food. I grow enough tomatoes to cut them off of the grocery list. But I'll always need milk, butter, eggs. Even if I got an urban chicken as a pet, I'd still need the milk and butter. I could bake my own bread, but would need to buy the flour. With the price of bread increasing at some point it may be more cost effective to back a loaf every weekend than to buy one. I'll revisit that as prices go up because the price of flour will go up too. And if I need the time to tend the garden instead of bake the bread I may still buy the bread. Things such as soda, chips, candy, ice cream, etc will be gone as too expensive on limited food budget. I'll eat less meat, chicken, and fish. Home cooking will eliminate some products using palm oil, which may aid in reducing deforestation. Also promote better health.

Less will be spent on things such as movies, clothes, jewelry, electronics, pets, etc in order to have more to devote to the ever increasing gas and food costs. Shelter may or may not go up. Depends on what happens with the housing market once it settles. Other impacts. Our local opera company and symphony may fold, putting musicians out of work because no one is buying tickets due to lack of discretionary funds. Or they may see a surge in that going to the opera, symphony or a local play is cheaper than going on a vacation or buying a mobile home or jetski.

 

Of course, as prices rise more and more alternatives become viable, which will lead to job creation and lower cost for energy and materials etc...

 

I don't buy glamor or pop-culture magazines, should I feel guilty
about the people who undoubtedly work hard to produce them?
.
I could go on about all the other things I don't choose to fund,
but it would obviously take all night.
.
_H*

 

You should credit that to the movie you stole it from. It was said by Danny DeVito's character in "Other People's Money"

 

Ok Dave, now that the credit has been properly given, do you have an answer?
Regardless of where it came from, it seems to be a reasonable question (although posed to the OP, but since you jumped in)