Nuclear Energy, Clean Coal, Sterling Engines etc

I started off in my career with Honeywell TDC 3000 and Baily INFI-90 process control computers. At the hardware level, they were extremely reliable systems with MTBF measured in years, not hours

However, the systems are only as good as the programming fed into them. There were also rare but notable OEM bugs that caught many operators by surprise. The one I remember clearly was Honeywell's TDC 3000 OS 210.M1 release. On the LCN (Local Control Network) diagnostic page was a touch box target called "LCN Reconnect."

LCN Reconnect was intended to be used by system engineers to hot swap nodes, say a failed History Module or Application Module, on the LCN. The LCN was a Token Ring with 2 coax cables, the drill was to disconnect one cable, forcing automatic failover to the good cable.

Once the LCN stabalised, one hooked up the disconnected cable to the new node tee, and powered on the node. You then went to the LCN diagnostic page and touched LCN Reconnect, which had a blinking red border and various scary warnings around it. This forced failover back to the first cable.

You then disconnected the second cable, hooked it up to the new node tee, and waited. If all went well, within 2 minutes the LCN reverted back to the first cable.

HOWEVER - if an operator was snooping around and happened to touch LCN Reconnect for giggles, then EVERY node on the LCN proceeded to failover and isolate itself in its own virtual LCN. Over the course of a few minutes, you would notice the system printer chatter to life as many error messages about traffic collisions started to occur.

The only recovery was a cold reboot. To take a typical DCS from cold to control was anywhere from 20-60 minutes, depending on point count and number of nodes

What I never understood was why Honeywell didn't use the key lockout on the LCN Reconnect feature. Every TDC 3000 "universal station" operator console had a key with three positions: Operator, Supervisor, and Engineer. The key could only be removed in the Operator position

It sounds "easy" to fix the pretty serious system problems cropping up with the InterTie system. In reality, it's a nightmare. I had a 6 month contract in 1996 to do some work for a system in the US, and I still get the sweats over it

Since these systems became deregulated, much as Ontario Hydro was in Canada, money for upgrades and robust system prototyping has all but disappeared. It's difficult to convince shareholders that a certain budget needs to be established to account for ORU's, lifecycles, and reliability

Many of the InterTie systems out there are running on equipment NO NEWER than the mid to late 1980's. We're talking kilobytes of memory, not gigabytes. To make the accounting and various NERC reporting regulations work, modern software is run on top, typically by using cheap arrays to transform the raw old system data

For example: Honeywell TDC 3000 "talks" in a very unique way over the LCN. Back in the day, a Honeywell/Burroughs mini was plugged into the LCN to act as a "silent" node, and the mini was then plugged into the regular office network. You could program in Fortran to write up a fairly simple reporting program that would talk to DB2

All that equipment is pretty old now, and even though it was built quite well, after +20 years has reached the end of its useful life. Support is non-existent and you have to repair them yourself. As the older engineers have retired or moved on to better things - like Yours Truly - the programmers now in the ranks have quite frankly no idea what to make of those ancient systems

How are you at 5-15 psi pneumatic control? That technology dates to the 1950's and earlier, and is still COMMONLY used at many power plants. How about 4-20 mA discrete control on Allen-Bradley 1300 series PLC's. Or the SCADA used on those old systems? Straight from the early 1970's

Many are still in use, which is a testimont to how reliable and rugged they are. But they don't last forever. What makes me cringe is when - by necessity - a system is kludged together with a mixture of old components and modern servers, eg the alarm server failure. That will actually be a more common failure mode

About the only "fix" I can see is to completely scrap the older systems and put in entirely new components. That will cost a staggering amount of money.

I personally wouldn't touch any older system. It just isn't worth my time anymore, and life is too short to kludge together obsolete crap to satisfy a deranged Board of Directors who only want to see a fat bottom line. To hell with the true cost

 

Nothing practical can be done about the CO2. If the air is sparkling clean but the ocean rises six or seven feet that will still be a huge net loss for the both the human and natural worlds.

 

All of the nuclear fuel waste ever made would fit inside one large building. Re-processing and breeder reactors further reduce the bulk by about 90%. The nuclear waste disposal problem is literally millions of times smaller than the fossil fuel waste problem. Barring some breakthrough, nuclear, Solar, wind, hydro, and geothermal power will all have to be part of the carbon-free energy solution for a developing world. Environmental justice and economic justice both require it.

 

(Tried to Quote Jayman post above)

Reading Jayman's post above and the following section of the Final Report of the Aug 14 Blackout is neat:

Pg 21-
"As indicated above, the investigation team identified
a number of institutional issues with respect
to NERC’s reliability standards. Many of the institutional
problems arise not because NERC is an
inadequate or ineffective organization, but rather
because it has no structural independence from
the industry it represents and has no authority to
develop strong reliability standards and to enforce
compliance with those standards. While many in
the industry and at NERC support such measures,
legislative action by the U.S. Congress is needed to
make this happen. "

Clearly translated-The corporations that are setting the reliability standards can choose to ignore them to the extent desired.

 

Yes, that is entirely correct. NERC has many fine standards for InterTie design, reliability, SCADA, HMI, ORU's, etc, but now that the electric power industry is deregulated, they can thumb their collective noses at the standards

When there is a widespread problem, the industry then whines about how much it would cost to remedy it. Quite frankly, I could care less how much they whine.

They chose to fatten up Board of Director and shareholder returns while squeezing as much life as possible out of technology that - in many cases - dates to the 1950's. This is beancounter mentality, not engineering mentality

I got sick enough of this bulls*** to simply leave that particular industry, and take my "obsolete" 4-20 mA, SCADA, and HMI skills with me. Let the beancounters figure out how to fix a Honeywell TDC 3000 Universal Operator Station touchscreen LED matrix dating from 1985

 

Is evaporative air conditioning very popular in USA? I ask because I have a unit on my roof that cools the whole house for less power than a 1 room refrigerated unit.

 

It's common in the west. Our house has it and we really like it. Saves loads on money over AC. When I lived in Tucson, AZ it was prevalent there as well. It's worthless back east or in the midwest.

 

The only evaporative cooling system I have seen (sort of) work in FL is when a person steps outside and their skin gets really damp. In a more serious note, in Florida, it does not work with the year round high humidities. In fact the opposite is the case, the air conditioning loads are very high since a lot of the energy goes into condensing water rather than cooling air.

 

Thank you.
Removing the moisture in humid climates is half the battle to a comfortable living environment. After all if it was 30C outside and 5% humidity it would be very pleasant but when it's 90% humidity it isn't so nice.

I have the thermostat of my evaporative system set to 22 to 24C which is nice but if I have a refrigerated system that would be too cold, my car I have set to 24 to 26C depending on the intensity of the sun.

 

The only thing a swamp cooler (as evap coolers are commonly known out here in the western US) would do in FL is create some wicked mildew. Yuck. They're the dog's bollocks though for saving energy. Even when it's 30+C for days on end we use less than 550 kWh a month (though usually just).

 

Coal is an extremely important fuel and will remain so. Some 23% of primary energy needs are met by coal and 39% of electricity is generated from coal. About 70% of world steel production depends on coal feedstock. Coal is the world's most abundant and widely distributed fossil fuel source. The International Energy Agency expects a 43% increase in its use from 2000 to 2020.

Here is an information that might be useful: lincenergy.us

 

Yes, very important, right up to the day about 15 years from now when it either becomes too expensive to use or is made illegal.

 

It is already too expensive for us to use,,, the problem is, like many things, we are not paying the real and total environmental cost of things,,,like burning coal.

Carbon emissions, particulate emissions, lung damage, acid rain, dead lakes etc. The real danger here is that China is planning on building ~ 1 major coal fired plant PER WEEK for the foreseeable future. Why?,, so that they can continue to supply us with cheap goods that we don't pay the full price for!

(I don't discount the need for coal in steel making, but as a percentage of coal burned it is tiny)

Icarus

 

Using nuclear (fission) to produce electricity is like using a chain saw to cut butter. It is gross overkill and makes a big mess. Nuclear continues to ignore the radioactive waste problem. Efficiency and conservation based on renewables (small hydro, solar, wind, geothermal) are far more cost effective both short- and long-term. We need a major effort for more efficient distributed power (generated in a wide variety of locations) not costly, inefficient centralized power. It is always more cost effective to use as wisely as possible what you already have, not continually look to "just go get more." We need robust, long-term thinking, not short-term impulses.

 

Long-term global thinking requires anticipating the needs of nine or ten billion people by the end of this century. Most of them will want a Western standard of living. It is impossible to achieve that end through conservation alone. Even with European/Japanese energy efficiency that implies increasing the world's energy supply by 4X or more. Nuclear power will be part of the solution, along with wind, geothermal, Solar, and every other non-fossil power source we can invent. Please get used to the idea.

 

+1. This is very true.

Tom

 

Richard,

Please explain to me how you expect dangerous clear to be safely handled and stored for upwards of thousands of years? Even if, and that is a big if, it can be proven that it can be safely handle and stored through glassification, deep cavern storage or what ever, do you honestly believe that there is and is going to be a good enough social order for a millenium to assure that some rouge group, or even some rouge government won't be able to break in and create havoc?

If so you have way more faith in people than I do. Witness the attempted theft from the South Africans, or the missing material from the former USSR.

I am not willing to mortgage the future on such a technology. I would rather live in the dark,,.

Icarus

 

You don't store it, you reprocess it. Only a small portion of the residual waste should ever be interred. Countries with a successful nuclear programs, such as France, reprocess and reuse their fissionable materials.

There is a risk of theft, and that is a serious issue. As for living in the dark, without fission power generation you may get your wish.

Tom

 

The theft/terrorism issue IS real, and it is long term! Reprocessing is fine, but show me that the final end product is safe for its dangerous life, and I will become convinced!

I personally won't be living in the dark because I live in a very efficient off grid house,, but I do understand that the world will be,,, and they will be beating down my door!

Icarus

PS Don't give me a ration about how I'm going to get my next battery set, or food or whatever... I am speaking metaphorically!