Internet Poll: Prius vs Jetta

The numbers suddenly changed! It took them a whole month to finally provide a single sentence about MPG and they messed up on both values? Interesting.

This is what's on the webpage now...

 

They just lost credibility right there.

 

Did anyone notice??? They were driving a Manual transmission, I'm sure of it. So basically in 7900 miles they were 90% of the time in sixth gear.

So the Jetta TDI they used costs more money than a G2 Prius to buy. Add $$$ for automatic.
G2's price is going down.

TDI costs more in upkeep.
Diesel costs more per gallon.
Prius pollutes less than Tier 2 Bin 5 spec.
Same *Highway* MPG numbers. The Jetta TDI would be awful in stop & go traffic.

So just change the two bucket seats on the Prius for two comfy Camry leather seats, and you're still cheaper.

Then there's the story of Ford Escape Hybrids forcibly being retired at 300,000k miles, that still have the original battery, brake disks, exhaust system, similar to Prius taxis.

Yep, the Jetta TDI Diesel T2Bin5 is in a sub-class all of it's own.

 

Considering the respective EPA ratings, and the fact that this event was being paid for by VW dealers, they should have been able to get the TDI to do a lot better than the Prius. Driving style is a huge factor in MPG, with plenty to room to spin the cars to get their intended results. Because their un-blind, un-controlled 'test' managed to push the Prius down only 0.44 MPG below the TDI, I'd say the Prius defeated them.

Having personally pulled 49.9 MPG from a rental Prius before having any clue about how to drive any hybrid, I must say that their abysmal MPG proves their driving style does not represent anything I'm interested in.

 

My God, they can't even do simple arithmetic? They've got ideal conditions for the TDI to shine...and it gets the same mileage as the Prius...with more emissions and at higher fuel cost. And it is a smellier, noisier diesel with less interior space for a family. And I've never gotten mileage as low as theirs in my Prius (42.2 min so far in mid-winter with ave. temps well below freezing.)

 

I replied to them:
Ok, I see you corrected the value to 41.4 MPG for the Jetta against 40.96 MPG for the CleanER Prius.
((41.4/40.96)/41.4)*100 = 2.4% better
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
Average diesel = 222.1, average regular = 204.6
((222.1/204.6)/222.1)*100 = 4.9% more expensive.
Therefore the Prius IS cheaper to run!
Proof:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 2.221$ = $375.53 of diesel.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 2.046$ = $349.65 of regular.
Regarding clealiness, it gets worse:
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/climate/420f05001.htm
CO2 emissions from a gallon of gasoline = 2,421 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 8,788 grams = 8.8 kg/gallon = 19.4 pounds/gallon
CO2 emissions from a gallon of diesel = 2,778 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 10,084 grams = 10.1 kg/gallon = 22.2 pounds/gallon
Therefore:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 22.2 = 3754 lb of Co2.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 19.4 = 3315 lb of Co2.
So, Who's cleaner, and cheaper?
(you are not going to correct the values - again?)

 

I'm adding:

Another issue is Nitrogen Oxide:
(From Wikipedia)
Health effects
NOx react with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form nitric acid vapor and related particles. Small particles can penetrate deeply into sensitive lung tissue and damage it, causing premature death in extreme cases. Inhalation of such particles may cause or worsen respiratory diseases such as emphysema, bronchitis it may also aggravate existing heart disease.[4]
NOx react with volatile organic compounds in the presence of heat and sunlight to form Ozone. Ozone can cause adverse effects such as damage to lung tissue and reduction in lung function mostly in susceptible populations (children, elderly, asthmatics). Ozone can be transported by wind currents and cause health impacts far from the original sources. Millions of Americans live in areas that do not meet the health standards for ozone.
NOx also readily react with common organic chemicals, and even ozone, to form a wide variety of toxic products: nitroarenes, nitrosamines and also the nitrate radical some of which may cause biological mutations.
As discussed above, atmospheric NOx eventually forms nitric acid, which contributes to acid rain.[6] NOx emissions are regulated in the United States by the Environmental Protection Agency, and in the UK by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
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According to the department of environment, the Jetta releases in the athmosphere 0.191 grams per kilometer. The Prius, 0.010 grams per kilometer.
Therefore, in your 7000 mile spree, the Jetta released 4.7 pounds of Nitrogen Oxide while the Prius relesed less than 4 ounces.

Yet another Hooray for the Prius.

 

They lost credibility before that for me... anyone who can't get any better mpg than what they stated is obviously skewing the figures somehow..... I hate a poor loser!

Its obvious to me now they are not in the pursuit of a viable alternative thats better than the prius, they are just grappling at straws to even be in the same class.

Enough said, they need to go back to the drawing board and start over, or step away and admit the Jetta is what it is.
The more they try and skew things, the more they lose credibility for everything else they promote.

They would be far ahead to stop competing and let the Jetta sell on its own merits.... but that means the price has to be much cheaper.... isn't that the whole problem here?

 

That's true, but it's generally NOT because of NOx. NOx can either create or destroy ozone depending on ambient conditions.

Most of the exposures to unacceptably high ozone ("smog") levels occur in metropolitan areas (MSAs). All MSAs studied thus far (in the U.S.) have been shown to be "VOC-limited" with respect to ozone formation, which means that reductions in ambient NOx levels generally do not lower, and can actually result in HIGHER, ozone levels (known as "weekend effect" or "NOx disbenefit"). The only practical way to reduce ozone in the VOC-limited areas is to reduce NMHC/VOC emissions.

The emissions of the U.S.-spec vehicles need to be used, not the European versions. The U.S. versions have more restrictive emission limits, especially for NOx. The certified FTP75 NOx emissions (@FUL) are 0.01 grams/mile for the PZEV Prius and 0.04 grams/mile for the ULEV Jetta TDI.