"Cash For Refrigerators" begins this fall - Dept. of Energy

Well it is interesting. Our refrigerator is 20 years old and still works just fine though I presume uses more electricity than a new one would. Getting $200 off a new one might help make a decision to replace it. However, the expected life span of current appliances looks to be pretty poor.

• Dishwashers: 9 - mine is 22 years old and has never needed any repair
• Dryers: (electric and gas) 13 - mine (electric) is 25 years old and has never needed any repair
• Refrigerators: 13 - The only thing mine has needed was to have the fan cleaned and I did it myself for free.
• Washing Machines: 10 - the first one lasted 22 years and during that time got a new water pump and a new circuit board
• Compactors: 6 - mine is 18 years old and has never needed any repair
• Microwave Ovens: 9 - not so lucky here. The first one lasted from 1990 to 2005. So far, so good. Its replacement was replaced last year.

The old "They don't make them like they used to" adage proves true.

source:
By the Numbers: How long will your appliances last? It depends: Consumer Reports Home & Garden Blog

 

estimated life cycle of any appliance should be much lower than its actual LT...we all should know that otherwise some a-hole will sue the company because his washer failed a year early which will only further drive up the cost of a new one.

its bad enough now when something happens to a car with 37 months or 37,000 miles on it. the consumer still feels ripped off, so when does it end.

cant imagine a company stupid enough to advertise "real" life expectancy

 

Hmmm, do I keep the old beer fridge, or get a shiny new one?

 

FWIW those life spans aren't much different than what I recall from 15 years ago. And if there is a long projected life span it would be based on the ones that were that old preceding it. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

Too bad they didn't have the rebate when I replaced my 14 year old fridge. I got $200 out of it anyway. Another $200 would have been very nice. I sold one before that for $100 that was about 15 years old...it was still running but was dying and had become a real PITA needing frequent defrosts. I'm glad they don't make fridges like they used to.

I had an old dishwasher that wouldn't clean anything (rental home). Boy was I ever glad to see it go, can't remember how long it has been. The new ones clean so much better than the old ones did. There is just no comparison. Better spray patterns, less energy use, less water use. I'm very glad they don't make them like they used to.

Clothes washer: replaced mine this year after about 17 years of service. It worked reasonably well, pretty much the same throughout its life. The transmission failed under warranty in the first year. I had to replace the water valves on it once every 8 years like clockwork. The lid switch also failed in the last year...took me a little while to figure out what was interrupting the cycle. The new front loader uses much less water, plus it uses less electricity. It spins the clothes dryer too, meaning less drying time and energy. It seems to be getting things cleaner and doesn't batter them the way the agitator did. I even managed to get $90 out of the old one. Glad they don't make 'em like they used to, with the one exception that the old ones were easy to repair.

Dryer: Replaced that as well. My ~17 year old dryer worked well enough. I only did one repair to it when it was about 5 years old, and can't recall what it was. It wasn't high end so it had no moisture sensor. This resulted in a lot of overdrying and shrinkage. Haven't sold it yet. The new dryer is better designed with a larger lint screen. It has a moisture sensor and enough temp control that it is performing much better than the old one. I'm saving money on energy and clothes. Other than a control board, I doubt there is anything on the dryer that I can't repair myself. Since moisture sensors were available way back then I can't say that there is much change in dryers. They are still basically the same tech.

Compactors: I've got a new one sitting in the garage that I need to sell. I have no use for them. Who wants that in the kitchen anyway? It's not like we get charged by volume and even if we did I'm not sure that the special bags would ever pay out.

Microwaves: My first one lasted about 15 years. It's replacement still works although I don't use it anymore (house has a built in.) They are so inexpensive.

 

Thanks for the post. I did a presentation on fridges at my church a couple of months back and didn't know this was coming up. We're lending out kill-a-watt meters so that members of the congregation can test their fridges and other appliances. I'm going to work up a handout on this.

A 20-year-old fridge, if its in good condition, will use three to four times as much electricity as a modern equivalent energy-star fridge. And, as with cars, most of the lifetime (dust-to-dust) energy use of a fridge is in the electricity to run it. For this reason a) an old fridge is never a good deal, even if it is free (in the sense of minimizing cost over your lifetime), and b) a new fridge (replacing a 20-year-old one) will typically pay for itself in 3 to 5 years in electricity savings.

The EPA has been on a kick to get folks to junk old fridges for some time now. Here's a link to their fridge calculator, so you can see how much the additional electricity to run your old fridge is costing you.

ENERGY STAR

 

Well, we have about the cheapest power rates in North America, and the beer fridge only gets used 2-3 months out of the year. There are similar rebates up here, but it's difficult to justify a new fridge just to keep a couple of 12 packs cold over the summer

 

Yeah, sure, no problem. The replacement calculation is for your main fridge (24/365). It wouldn't apply to a fridge used part-time. If you use it one-sixth time, it'll take six times as long to pay back, not counting the time value of money. Throw that in, and it probably never pays for itself.

The EPA fridge calculator is there because, for most people, old fridges should be one of those obvious opportunities: saves energy and saves money. But most people will not buy a new appliance until the old one dies. Don't want to "waste" the old one. But in the typical case (not yours), you waste more resources by hanging onto the old one than by buying a new one.

It's the same situation as people who realize that CFLs are better than incandescents, but are waiting for their incandescents to burn out before replacing them with CFLs. Nope, once you get that CFLs are vastly better than incandescents, and do a little homework (to see that the energy cost embodied in the existing incandescent is negligible relative to the energy cost of running it), the right answer is to take out your working incandescents lights and toss them now.

Same logic with old fridges, but most people can't see that. People see that great big metal box. Tossing that, even recycling it, seems wasteful. What they don't see (present company excepted for hydro power) is the enormous pile of coal required to fuel that box every year. If you're in a high-coal-use state, you're talking about something like an additional half-ton plus per year (1000 kwh or more) for the additional electricity required for the 20-year-old fridge relative to the modern one.

So our eyes deceive us. We see the big heavy box. The much larger pile of coal required to fuel it is hypothetical, if we think of it at all. It takes a person of strong will to dump the box you can see in favor of the pile of coal that you can't. Even when the dollars involved say it's a cost-saver.

None of which has anything to do with part-time fridge in a hydro electric area.

 

Actually, Manitoba Hydro does offer some rebates, usually for the big ticket items: heating, A/C, fridges, cfl's, etc. I got a bottom freezer fridge last year that claims a yearly power consumption of 426 kwh. It seems to work well

The beer fridge is one of those rounded, curvy, weighs-a-ton 50's models. Ok for keeping beer cold in summer, but I sure as hell would not want to live with it all the time

As far as rebates, I would like to see the government and utilities offer more rebates for geothermal heating and a/c. Properly installed, the geothermal systems will have 30-60% of the running cost as conventional gas furnaces and electric a/c

 

This calculator very seriously overestimates my current usage, compared to what my Kill-A-Watt meter shows, even after plugging in correct model number (exactly 20 years old) and utility rate. And even with its optimistic savings overestimate, it would take 12 years to recoup the cost of a cheapest bare-bones new models I see, not any model I'd want to buy.

For the past three years, since upgrading to modern energy efficient washer and dishwasher, I've been keeping my eyes open for a better refrigerator that the spouse will agree to. But the $$ payback is not yet there.

I do recommend that folks use a Kill-A-Watt or other energy monitor to check their usage. While saving energy is a good idea, for some of us the $$ savings is much less that the hype suggests.

 

For what it's worth, the EPA calculator was right on the money for my old fridge.

Let me rephrase what you just said.

The EPA calculator says that, for you, a new bare-bones fridge would barely pay for itself in its lifetime (average fridge life is 14 years). Your measurement (I'm assuming you plugged it into the kill-a-watt for a few days to get a decent average reading) says the situation is even less favorable.

I'm not seeing a problem there. You're one of the few people, with a 20 year old fridge, for whom fridge replacement doesn't make much sense. That's what the EPA says, that's what you're actual electrical reading says. You have a 20-year-old fridge that's nearly as efficient as a modern energy star fridge and/or you pay little for your electricity. I'm pretty sure that's out of the ordinary for the US as a whole.

What we've been telling the members of our congregation is to look at the EPA website, see if it looks like they are a good candidate, then borrow a kill-a-watt and check actual usage.

 

My 20-year-old fridge is nowhere close to today's Energy-Star efficiencies. Nothing of that era was.

The EPA site lists my model as consuming 1204 kwh/yr. But its original EnergyGuide label (yes, I still have it) has dollar figures that translate to 995 kwh/yr. My Kill-A-Watt measurement, taken over more than a week three years ago, found a rate a bit over 800. The EPA site indicates that a new model would be consume around 428.

So my savings from upgrading amounts to (at $0.084/kwh) $65 or $47 or $31 per year, depending on which measure is used. No way will that savings pay for even a low-rent-apartment-style refrigerator of equivalent size in a mere 3 to 5 years, or even 10.

But wait, there's more. I live in a heating-dominated climate (and keep the house cool, likely contributing to my low measurement). The 'wasted' energy is fully used to help heat the house half the year, so actual savings would be about half that computed above, when running my original electric resistance heat. A new heat pump, installed at the tail end of the last heating season, should improve the equation.

People who live in AC-dominated climates will actually get to magnify their upgrade savings. Upgrading to a more efficient fridge also slightly reduces their cooling load, by a certain fraction of the fridge savings, depending on the efficiency of their AC unit.

I don't recall what season my original measurement was made, so I should do it again over different seasons. Consumption likely varies as the average house temperature changes through the year.

 

We ditched our old fridge once I had the cash to replace it (I don't "do" loans unless they're completely unavoidable). I'm saving $10/mo in electricity based on Kill-a-watt readings. I'm curious to know if anyone has measured the PF of their fridge. I'm sure it's horrid.

Chogan, that's a good idea... the church bit. I'll have to suggest that to the "Green taskforce" at our church (BTW, our minister is now pres of the UUA).

 

other things to consider when calculating savings. i am also in W. Wa and we have two tiered rates here. cutting your usage down can keep you off the higher tier which would also boost your savings.

and not quite sure i understand your hesitancy over ROI. the average fridge does last 20 years, unless you dont expect to live that long, and ROI is less than that....

**edit**

i have a small freezer in the garage used for my "cow" and to store various successes from fishing trips etc. we actually were low on beef and what not, and decided to downsize. prev freezer was standup and seal was bad. could not find a reasonable replacement. so we waited for local landfill to do their "$5 get rid of appliances weeK" and ditched it. took about 3 months to replace it with 5 cu ft chest freezer. well during that time, our electricity use was dropped a third. (heck my Zenn does not even come close to what that freezer used)

when i added the chest freezer, usage went back up but still noticeably less than before. the freezer we bought was also used and cheap ($25) but the chest design inherently works better

 

I just bought a new Bosch front loading washing machine.
I qualify for a $200 state government rebate because it has a 4.5 star water use rating. It uses only 56 litres for a normal wash cycle. It is also one of the most energy efficient machines on the market.
there is nothing for refridgerators here. Water is the big push.

 

Hmmm ... maybe the point isn't clear ... if you replace your 400% less efficient OLD stuff (along with maybe a couple million or so other folks) we won't have as many blackouts / brownouts. I know some simply don't care ... or don't get it ... or can't afford it ... but the $$ is supposed to help get rid of less efficient junk. Paying to get rid of less efficient junk is WAY cheaper than building more nuke / coal / hydro generating equipment ... as well as stimulating the companies that build appliances ... or the supply chains that bring them to the big box stores.

 

Resistance electric heating is about the least cost effective (nat. gas kills it unless the electricity is cheap). In my case the heat pump loses to gas as well--really badly in the colder spells where strip heating would be required.

The problem with a refrigerator is that the heat loss is not well distributed. Same problem as with incandescent lights. (There probably is some need to apply a "fudge factor" to derate their effective contribution during heating season.) How many months a year can you really take credit for the fridge heat contribution? Maybe 5 months when the heat would run daily/almost daily, and ironically this is the period when it is coolest in the house so the fridge contribution will be the least (it will be running most efficiently.)

During the cooling period (maybe less than 3 months in your area) you need to divide the electricity delta by the heat pump/AC's COP. This is the period when the house will be hottest and the fridge contribution will be greatest.

For me with natural gas heat, and SEER 10, moderately cold winter, moderate but humid summer, the result of the two effects is a wash. However, rates and location determine the net.

This will make some difference, maybe as much as 10-20% between heating and cooling season.

I don't disagree with your results, its hard to justify a refrigerator changeout on energy savings unless the original fridge is a real pig, or the replacement is a relatively small, no-frills special in the $400 - $600 range. Tripp went something like the latter route and his is seriously outperforming the energy guide numbers.

 

AMEN!!

i fought the urge to start comparing ROI on hybrids and EV's...after nearly 10,000 miles, cheap hydroelectric rates, and nearly 2 years, i have still not recovered 10% of the investment on my Zenn....

 

I bought a 5 cu. ft. Kenmore chest freezer a few years ago and it has been great. It didn't cost that much and although it is not Energy Star rated it performs as if it were.

I've only defrosted it once, for a move. I will probably defrost it again sometime in the next few months since it will have been about 18 months. It doesn't have much ice even though it gets substantial use--probably opened about 2 times/day on average. It has maybe a 3/8" thick layer of frost in lines on the interior where the coils are obviously next to the surface.

The upright models are very inefficient. Plus they really need automatic defrost. I remember one we had as a kid, I always disliked it because it was full of ice frost making it hard to find or place anything inside.

 

I have a refrigerator that is at least 25 yrs. old. This might be a good opportunity to get a new one but I'm debating that because this one hasn't given me any problems yet.