There are a load of techies on here, so maybe some of you could answer this?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by GrumpyCabbie, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Just been playing around with my smart phone on the map function and it's pretty much a gps satnav thingy. Then I turned the gps option off and the map still found my position but with less accuracy by using the mobile 3g network. I then selected 2g only and the accuracy pretty much went out the window, other than it showed where I was within about 1.5 km.

    Fair enough and I understand it uses either the gps or triangulation with the 3g or 2g masts. However, when I got home the map was still on the 2g setting and suddenly the blue circle of where I was on the map went from 1500metres to 50 metres and it zoomed in on my house. Hmmm, how did it do this I thought. I played around with the settings and it always found my exact house even with the gps off and the network set at 2g.

    I pondered for a while and then tried switching my wireless network off and the map actually went back to 1500 metres accuracy!! Maybe a coincidence? so I turned the wireless back on and a few seconds later my map zoomed back in on my house! :eek:

    Obviously it is picking up my wireless network, but what I find alarming is that it can use this to find my house? How does it do it? Can anyone know who I am or track my details from searching for my wireless network? What are the legalities of this? Should I be concerned? etc etc
     
    #1 GrumpyCabbie, Dec 21, 2010
  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I don't think I understand your concern or question. Seems to me that the phone did not "find" your home, it simply had better triangulation when at your home than elsewhere.
     
    #2 SageBrush, Dec 21, 2010
  3. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

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    Google street view when roaming your neighborhood recorded your access points mac address as well as GPS information. Its another way to find out where you are if you dont have GPS signal or cell tower information.

    Look up Skyhook for more information.
     
    #3 TheForce, Dec 21, 2010
  4. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    TheForce is correct, they have a databse now of all publicly visible WiFi access points (even if encrypted) that coorelates it's MAC address with location.
     
    #4 pEEf, Dec 21, 2010
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Is it legal? I know google got into a lot of trouble for collecting wireless data with their street view cars but I didn't realise they also collected details of your wireless network.

    What can I do? Is it connected to my IP address or do I just change broadband supplier? Is there a way to block or mask my signal or trick their system?

    I wouldn't have minded if they had asked me or let me know beforehand, but I don't like stuff like this. Perhaps I should have turned my wireless off when not at home when the street view cars were doing their rounds. I knew there had to be another reason why google did street view. Why would they offer a free service such as street view which would have cost them £millions, unless there was a way of making money out of it?

    We should at least have an option to opt out, though the idea of tricking their system into thinking I'm somewhere I'm not appeals.
     
    #5 GrumpyCabbie, Dec 21, 2010
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Jay, OP wrote the location was based on cell 2G networking, not wi-fi. I suppose the way to check is for grumpy to turn off wi-fi if it was running on his device and see what happens.
     
    #6 SageBrush, Dec 21, 2010
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I'm really talking through my hat here, because I don't understand this stuff, but I believe it's possible to tell your wi-fi network not to broadcast its name. This (???) makes it invisible to sniffers that don't know the name and is different than locking it to require a password.

    When you sniff for networks (or a device such as the iPhone or iTouch looks for networks for location-finding) you see a list of available networks. Some (probably most) will be locked so you need a password to log on. But a network that does not broadcast its name will not show up at all.

    Now folks who actually know how this stuff works can tell me I'm full of beans, and I won't argue with them.
     
    #7 daniel, Dec 21, 2010
  8. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Daniel, you have it pretty much right. Normally WiFi Access Points (AP) broadcast their Station Identifiers (SSID) so that they can easily be found and identified. You can turn off the SSID broadcast, which will keep a casual user from finding your network. It can still be sniffed, but it's harder, especially if it isn't very active.

    Tom
     
    #8 qbee42, Dec 21, 2010
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Skyhook and Google positioning are not the same. In fact they are bitter rivals. That said, they are both trying to do the same thing.

    Tom
     
    #9 qbee42, Dec 21, 2010
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    As far as SSID, if I disable it my iPod Touch cannot connect to my WiFi. However, my BlackBerry Torch can
     
    #10 jayman, Dec 21, 2010
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Odd. I disabled SSID broadcast on my Airport Express but my iTouch connects to it just fine. I had to enter the name the first time, and of course the password. Now that it knows to look for it I don't have to do anything but turn wifi on.
     
    #11 daniel, Dec 22, 2010
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