"Brake Service" every 2 years/32,000km.

Mendel, I mean that a visual can be done on the brakes. No need to take them apart after only 2 years and some 20,000 miles.

On a Camry / Matrix, sure it makes sense.

My G2 Prius only had 2mm pad wear, after 4 years and 80,000km.

 

I'm sorry for coming across grumpy. I agree the Prius has an advantage, with regen braking.

Have to say though: eyeballing the exterior of the brakes, vs rotating up the caliper and pulling out the pads for a look, they invariably look worse in the latter case. Inner pads tend to be worn more, and the wear can be uneven. And the anti-sieze stuff at all the interfaces is pretty much gone by 2 years. It's also the only way you can check that the sliding pins are still operating ok.

It is a fairly easy chore, torque spec for the 2010 and on caliper bolts is 25 ft/lb, front and back.

 

I agree with Markderail I think a visual inspection without disassembly is adequate. Taking them apart can (and has) caused problems. Of course if you do it yourself or have a very conscious mechanic it might be OK.

Mendel, isn't it normal for the inner pad to wear more quickly? The pistons are on the inside so that pad contacts the rotor first and pulls the outside pad in to contact the rotor.

I think on my old Volvo, which went through pads rather quickly, I used swap inner and outer pads so they would wear out at the same time. I was financially challenged at that time in my life and I thought I could get a few thousand more miles out of a set of pads that way.

 

I think you're right, I'd never thought about. Theoretically, if the slider pins are frictionless, there shouldn't be much difference, but in practice that's what I've seen. Ok, I'll quit harping, LOL.

One thing that worries me with the Prius, I'm concerned that even pushing in the piston might trigger some fault. Not sure how the brake fluid sensors work. Or that some pump might start up while you've got the pads out, and push the piston out, something like that.

 

I have never changed pads on a Prius and I haven't checked the maintenance manual yet. But I think I would unhook the 12V battery first, then remove some fluid from the reservoir before I push the pistons in. Then replace as much fluid (using new fluid) as I can before pushing on the pedal and refill the fluid as needed.

How does that sound?

 

Search this for "disable brake control". First hit lists procedures and cautions for opening up the caliper. Mentions that a code may come up, but it can be dismissed.

Also search for "Techstream must be used for bleeding". Don't know if I like the sound of that.

Also search for "REPLACE BRAKE FLUID (for not using the Techstream". Not sure how it's not possible to bleed, if it is possible to replace, without Techstream.

Good read, anyhow.

 

Good information thanks for digging it out. My maintenance manual CD is not indexed so I can't find things easily.

From what I see you can change the fluid without a Techstream but they say you cannot bleed air from the system without one? Don't quite understand why but I would accept that as probably true. Unless there is a failure or the pistons or calipers are removed there should not be air in the system anyway.

I would be willing to try the fluid change without Techstream procedure. Fortunately we should not have to change brake fluid for 100K miles or more. I would guess most cars never have a brake fluid change.

 

I probably have the same disc. There are bookmarks, if you set the left column to be pages with arrow, but they're not that useful I've found. What I've been doing when I find something: select the pages of interest, say print, then choose Adobe PDF as your printer (won't work if you just have the Reader, need the full version). Then save the output with a relevant name. The copy retains the original page numbers, which can be handy.

Anyway, yes: most of this is cargo cult, ie: preparing for things that never come. Look up the origin of that expression, it's very interesting.

If ours ever needs pad replacement, I'll likely do that myself, if in the interm I find I can dismiss codes, somehow, say with Scangauge. And for brake fluid replacement, I think I'll just leave it to the dealership, unless some other brave soul goes first.

FWIW, Honda recommends tri-yearly (regardless of mileage) brake fluid change.

Just picked up a new toy:

Mighty Vac Silverline Elite Automotive Kit MV8500

A hand operated vacuum/pressure pump. Very nice quality, complete with case, decent manual and a ton of accesories. About the only thing I can think of immediately to use it for is to deal with minor overfill of engine oil, via the dipstick tube.

Just played around with it and the little tranfer bottle (typically used for brake bleeding) a bit, ensuring it was tight, trying to make water "boil" at room temp, and so on.

(On sale at KMS tools here for $69.00, sale wraps up today I think)

More cargo cult, LOL.

 

Thanks for the tip on the CD, I don't have the Adobe Writer but I have a Linux program that might work.

Yes I know about the cargo cult. I think Richard Feynman (one of my heroes) also referred to it when he described some of the pseudo-sciences as cargo cult science.

I have one of those little pumps too, haven't used it yet. I did use the hose with a kitchen funnel to refill the transaxle when I changed the fluid.

 

Tideland Prius

Could you please post the cost of this 24months/32000km maintenance?

- Maintenance Service $ ?
- Brake Service $118
- Replace Cabin Air Filter $60
- Tire rotation $20

Thank you very much!

 

Thank you for your advice. I checked the service items for 32000km maintenance from toyota.ca.

The Maintenance package ($96.95) should include battery service. I don't know why they charged separately.

Anyway, the 32000km maintenance looks expensive. I should pick up my prius in February last year. The 2 years free maintenace promotion's value is more than $500. (The dealer told me it only worths four oil changes. It is so not true.)

 

*** Warning: this is a long post ***

I had that service done sometime in September. I was unsure whether this was a good deal, so I asked a few questions around, and decided to do it as required so that I would consider this as my baseline. My main worry was that some parts of the check are redundant and that the price paid was too high. That turned out to be confirmed - read on.

The services is in 3 parts:

1. maintenance service (extended oil service),
2. brake service
3. replacing cabin air filter

The details of he maintenance service

• Replace engine oil & filter
• Remove & inspect engine air filter element (replace if required,additional charge)
• Lubricate locks, latches & hinges
• Confirm lights, horn & wipers function properly
• Check coolant, brake, transmission & washer fluid levels
• Perform battery service and comprehensive electrical charging system evaluation

• Inspect valve clearance (audibly)
• Inspect drive belts for damage, adjust tension if required
• Check steering gear box, linkage and shock absorbers for looseness,damage or leakage

• Inspect ball joints and dust covers, driveshaft and steering rack boots, chassis nuts & bolts for looseness or damage
• Remove wheel and brake drum, check pad/shoe thickness. Examine brake calipers, wheel cylinders and brake lines.

• Inspect fuel and exhaust systems for leaks or damage
• Examine tires for damage and wear, check & adjust pressure (rotate if required, additional charge).

• Perform road test.

Interesting this is really a oil change + battery check and some visual checks (that take litteraly only seconds).

So I stayed close to my car all the time. The maintenance service took 45 minutes (including the road test). I timed everything. Most of the checks are visual checks actually. And I must add that the technician was about to use 5w20 (even if I had specified 0w20), he forgot to fill in the washing liquid tank, and forgot to check the lights and the horn. That is all written in the procedure for the maintenance service, only he was not reading it. I mentionned that at the end, and of course he said that was indeed included in the service and did them right away.

Now he did not do the brake verification. The reason is the brake service is done by the same guy. So why take the brake aparts if you are going to do that again minutes later for cleaning them. So by not doing that verification, they save time (and money). But since you paid for a package, you dont benefit from it, but the dealer does.

The second service is brake: they take everything out, clean everything, add some grease, and put everything back. That took 1 hour. I have to say that my brakes are pretty new, so the cleaning job was not very complicated. But I asked numerous questions to the technician during the job, and the 1 hour includes time for questions and answers.

The service includes also changing the air filter (which we have to pay for time and part). That was a bit problematic: the new filter they use has only about 50% of the surface than the one that came with the car. So it will clog up more quickly (probably twice as fast?). Also the technician wrote 20 minutes for changing the filter. When I was handed the bill at the end, I noticed they were charging for those 20 minutes (!). I naturally refused to pay that, considering the filter took about 2 minutes to change (I was there - I timed everything!).

So in total, the work was done in 1 h 45 min. They charged a total of 283$ (including taxes) for the service. That is 162$ per hour. Ok that includes some parts (e.g. oil, oil filter and cabin filter). But still, that is still much higher than the 95$ per hour they normally charge. Next time, I will:

• Ask for a standard oil change
• Ask for a brake service
• Ask for the the visual checks and battery listed in the 32000 km maintenance check that take about 5 minutes to complete, and that I will pay at the normal rate (e..g 95$ per hour).

that shall save me a lot of money...

In conclusion,

• The brake service package charge is ok - it took 1 hour to complete, and they charge about 135$ for it I think, so this is roughly ok. But the maintenance service is way overpriced. It is just a oil change with some checks that take about 5 minutes extra to complete.
• if you normally do the 2 services separately, it may make sense to pay for those services in the packages they propose, considering that they will have to check the brakes in the maintenance check. But if you do both on the same visit, then by having the service done by the same technician, they save a lot of money, therefore that service is very profitable for the dealer. My calculations above prove it.
• if you dont stand by your car while they do the work, you dont know that they do. You can then be surprised by things like:
  • Overcharging for services that took only a short time
  • Not getting the oil you paid for
  • Not all tests being done.

Having had that experience, I will never (ever) blindly give my car again to the dealer for maintenance without watching everything. I will always stand next to my car and check everything. (it has the added bonus of teaching me a lot of things about cars, which is nice).

Hoping you find this useful...

 

Just a FYI --- there are a lot of shops here in the States that will NOT allow that - they will not allow customers in their service bay areas.

 

To be honest, pulling all four tires, pulling out all the brake pads, cleaning them up, re-applying the lubricant and putting it back together seems like reasonable for $118. They should rotate the tires at no additional charge.

But if they only pull the tires and look at the pads without removing them, an they don't clean them up, then I think $118 is overpriced.

 

Tire rotation seems to be a "loss leader" for a lot of service departments.

When you consider the labour involved, removal of 4 wheels, visual inspection of all brakes, and obviously re-install of the wheels, in rotated positions, $118 for just visual inspection does not seem out of line. Maybe I'm conditioned by Canadian prices, but any time I've gotten 4 wheel brake "service", where they actually pull out the pads, clean and re-lube them, the bill is over $400.

I've done snow tire swap over on a couple of vehicles lately. Obviously the pros have an advantage with a proper lift, but still there's a fair amount of labour/time involved, regardless of your equipment.

Things can happen: I seem to have about 50% chance of wheel being semi-frozen on the hub, necessitating lowering with loosened lug nuts to break it loose.

There's a fair number of steps:

1. Half loosen all lug nuts.
2. Raise car.
3. Remove all lug nuts and remove wheels.
4. In the event a wheel is frozen on the hub, re-install all lug nuts loose, both wheels on that end, lower that end to break it loose, re-raise car and remove lug nuts and wheels.
5. Visually inspect brake discs, lines, pads, at all four corners.
6. Put wheels back on and install lug nuts. (fair amount of effort here)
7. Lower car and torque all lug nuts.
8. Tidy up all equipment.