Why "plug in" versus "hybrid?"

And the answers are:

Never (in unit notation). Forward Slash.

We use AC to 'denote', not 'define' alternating current. A\C would never represent A divided by C.

and Wh not WH.

Thank You Kindly.

 

Thanks,

I meant "denote" not define.

Icarus

 

I would argue contrarily. The fundmental reality is a electric motor is significantly more efficient than an ICE, and even if your power is coal fired, I'd be surprised if the net emissions were greater witha plug in Prius. Not to mention the ability to regen power.

I suspec what you are positing is urban myth.

Icarus

 

Or you could just read the link already provided.
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/electric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf

[tl;dr - Running on EV in Ohio is like getting 42 MPG in an ICE vehicle.]

Or do the math for yourself.

 

Thank you,

That said, what conventional ICE vehicle gets a 42 mpg averge? My 1.8 Corrola would near that, and some diesels can do it, are there others?

Icarus

 

BilltheEngineer was comparing it to a standard Prius (check your quote of him in your post 3 notes back). An ICE vehicle. Which gets 50 MPG average.

'conventional' was an adjective _you_ added to the conversation, not in BilltheEngineer's claim.

 

Having owned both, I can say with certainty the MPG is a little better with the plug-in.

Switching the battery type & size why. The system regens more, delivers more power, and shuts off the engine sooner.

 

....and I would say if you account for using air cond in summer and heat in winter (which I realize many EV drivers are trying hard not to use those accessories very much) then the comparison can get down to much lower MPG. At one time I calculated as low as 12.5 MPG fossil fuel equivalents in winter for EV with heat on using 100% coal elec source and 2 mi/kwhr which is what Consumer Reports had quoted in an early article on Volt use in winter.

I am rusty on these calcs, but bottom line it gets back to what AustinGreen said: fuel switching away from petroleum is the main benefit. EV Advocate Chelsea Sexton is quite vocal when she says it is a mistake to claim big environmental benefits for EV...she prefers to focus on quality of driving experience and I think she also "likes" any commenter that says we need to stop using oil.

 

To add to the tangent, standard units of measure are upper-case when named after a person (which they usually are) and lower when not. So:
- k(ilogram), g(ram), m(etre), s(second), h(our).
- A(mpere), C(oulomb), W(att), N(ewton). Ω is used for Ohms, presumably because physicists couldn't resist the pun. But it is an upper-case omega.

A\C would mean the relative complement set of A with respect to C. I.e. { x ∈ A | x ∉C }

Back on topic:
How do I love PEV?
Let me count the ways.

(1) Lower pollution, particularly in urban areas.
(2) Less noise, particularly in urban areas
(3) (1) and (2) would help make urban spaces more livable and further encourage the re-urbanization trend, helping ...
(4) Improved efficiency, both through large-scale and static combustion and through ...
(5) Diversification of energy sources allowing ...
(a) Use of renewables
(b) More use of domestic energy
(c) Increased economic stability through stable, predictable consumer pricing
(6) Improved electricity grid economics
(a) Addition of a large amount of night-time use (Filling the bathtub), raising baseload demand and allowing more cheap/efficient plants to run longer.
(b) Night-time charging encourages a shift to time-of-use/real-time pricing and connection charges, better reflecting market economics and particularly encouraging peak shaving, peak efficiency and solar PV.
(7) Creation of a large electricity demand sink, which could be managed ("Grid-to-vehicle"). Since plug-in cars are high-power and are often idle with a "charge by" requirements, it would be possible to provide a charging pattern to the car to help match supply (including variable renewable) and overall demand.
(At large scale there's some potential for Vehicle-to-Grid but I'm doubtful about that and much prefer the much simpler and more efficient managed charging ("Grid-to-Vehicle")).
(8) Home charging largely displacing gas stations, reducing the need for a large, dedicated infrastructure, saving space, manpower and energy resources.

 

^^^ I would have no major objection to the above list except to point out this is getting into political arguments of EV advocacy. When you live downstream of Ohio coal plants you realize cars are probably not the biggest problem. Last I knew many small lakes in Adirondacks are dead...I need to get back up there to see if they are coming back to life yet.

 

This is part of the cost of coal that isn't usually included in the standard figures.

 

...well it is also related to the granite soil with no pH buffer capability in that part of the world (plate techtonics have moved this same geologic feature to European side of the pond).

 

I contend that even in coal states, the PiP and other plug ins are better for emissions for those with a lot of short trips, since fuel economy of a gas car is really bad during warm up, even for a Liftback.

 

Fortunately, the act of warming up is still really clean. It doesn't cause that much of a hit with the plug-in model anyway. Keeping smog-related emissions down is the key and overall there is indeed a benefit even when the electricity source isn't the cleanest choice.

That's why too big of a battery isn't a good idea... for now.

 

While likely true for the nation as a whole, this varies sharply from area to area. My utility's latest fuel mix disclosure shows:
89.8% hydro
4.4% nuclear
3.9% wind
0.8% coal
0.5% landfill gases,
0.6% other (biomass, natural gas, petroleum, and waste incineration).
I.e., hardy any carbon in there. It is low enough that the utility can buy enough offsets for both production and its motor vehicle fleet to claim to be carbon neutral.

A number of readers here and in similar other forums have enough rooftop solar panels to power their own plug-in vehicles through grid-tied net metering. I met such an owner nearby during the local fall solar tour last month, with a Leaf, a Tesla S, and 9.8kW of PV. (One more panel would have put him over the state's limit for residential solar incentives.)

My house just reached the point of getting more than half its total energy from its own rooftop PV. My aspiration is to reach 100% PV within a couple years, and have enough space remaining for a future plug-in vehicle.