Featured The next leaf and nissan calls out fiat

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by austingreen, Jan 13, 2016.

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  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Carlos Ghosn: Fiat Taking Risky Stand On EVs, Fight Is On Against Chevy Bolt - Inside EVs
    Looks like its 60kwh just like the bolt. I think this spells slow sales for the leaf, even at 30kwh, people are going to wait for the IDS concept.

    Maybe lg chem will make the same 60 kwh flat pack battery for both chevy and nissan.

    Oh and Toyota hedged its bet that the mirai is the future. They know its not going to do any volume, and are trying a tesla strategy for hydrogen now too. No not today, but around 2020. You know you need to wait for some infrastructure for hydrogen.
    Lexus LF-FC Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car Shown At 2016 NAIAS

    [/quote]
     
    #1 austingreen, Jan 13, 2016
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  2. arescec

    arescec Active Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    It's quite a beauty too, that LF-FC:
    [​IMG]
     
    #2 arescec, Jan 13, 2016
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  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    It's quite a beauty too, that LF-FC:
    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
    I think it looks good from the back and side, not so good from the front, but that front is lexus's new design language. It said it will make it as a V8 powered car. Its a shame they don't put some of that FC concept together with some of the excellent lithium batteries out there, and their new 2L turbo engine, and make it an awd PHEV. The rear motor could be downsized and put between transmission and engine. I'm pretty sure that would not infringe on the bmw or hyundai pattents, but they are partnered with bmw, so they could probably get a waiver even if they infringe.

    My guess is fuel cells with enough power to run this are crazy expensive, probably on the order of $100,000 to get it to to even 250 hp, and then you need to find space for the tanks, so you need to wait for costs to come down and even then probably add a big battery to provide some power.
     
    #3 austingreen, Jan 13, 2016
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good article, i like this guy.
    i agree with him on charging infrastructure. we need to keep developing it like gas stations, and in places where people can do something while they are waiting.
     
    #4 bisco, Jan 13, 2016
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  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    CHAdeMO Breaks Into 1,500 Chargers In U.S.

    There are a lot of Quick chargers for the nissan. Unfortuanately with its short range even the 30 kwh leaf needs massive infrastructure for convienence, and probably battery swap.

    The picture behind Ghoshens back talks about a 60 kwh bev. That is much easier to build infrastruture for. The 1500 chargers are already here. One problem is they are probably slow, only 50 KW which means an hour to get to 80% charge. Tesla looks like they are doing better at 120 kw. Porsche is talking about 300 kw chargers. It would be great if we got nation wide 150 kw, that had adapters for each and could do full speed on cars so equiped. 150 KW should be able to do 75% of a 70 KWH liquid conditioned pack in about 25 minutes.
     
    #5 austingreen, Jan 13, 2016
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  6. arescec

    arescec Active Member

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    I think it looks good from the back and side, not so good from the front, .[/QUOTE]

    Just so others know what we are talking about:
    [​IMG]

    That is probably the most beautiful front end of ANY car made to this date.
     
    #6 arescec, Jan 13, 2016
  7. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    It burns! oh, I can't get it out of my brain. goodgod that is not even close to what I want in a front-end. ack! i keep seeing it and want to tear my eyeballs out. monstrously hideous comes to mind. how do these things get past focus/marketing groups?
     
    #7 finman, Jan 13, 2016
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we just need something to do for those 25 minutes. and i'm thinking trips. not sure how much driving is done beyond 150 miles, unless traveling quite a ways/multiple days.
     
    #8 bisco, Jan 13, 2016
  9. arescec

    arescec Active Member

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    Not sure what's wrong with it.

    It's just plain gorgeous. And that grille - wow.
     
    #9 arescec, Jan 13, 2016
  10. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    exactly. the grill needs to be...that big? to each their own.
     
    #10 finman, Jan 13, 2016
  11. arescec

    arescec Active Member

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    I like the grille because usually, front of the car is full of different creases, small pieces and whatnot. This is quite simplistic and elegant.
     
    #11 arescec, Jan 13, 2016
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Large grills are part of the history of large luxury cars as they gulped a lot of air to inefficiently burn their gasoline and cool the engine. I'm sure this Lexus willl have an efficient gasoline engine, although a big one a 5L (hence the 500 in the name) normally asperated 467 hp V8. It has 10 speed conventional auto, although with claimed fast for slush box shifts of 200 ms, and probably full lock up torque converter.

    My taste just doesn't go for that spindle grill design language. I do understand that some traditional luxury car people like it, and both interior and exterior won design awards. I do like the sides and rear and interior.
    How Lexus Killed Boring With The Mind-Blowing V8 LC 500 Coupe
    Lexus LC 500 dominates 2016 EyesOn Design Awards

    I think this has the mark of akio toyoda all over it, and I think it is a good direction for lexus. I don't think they can go right at bmw and mercedes with the turbocharged mills and dct. This is bold. The old v8 has life in it.

    I just think their work on electrifying it for fuel cells should not have gone to waste. They could have pretty easily made it into a 20 mile awd phev with their 2L turbo 4 instead of the 8.
     
    #12 austingreen, Jan 13, 2016
  13. arescec

    arescec Active Member

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    You mixed up LF-FC and LC500, but good points nevertheless
     
    #13 arescec, Jan 13, 2016
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    LF-FC is the show car that is not going into production. LC500 is the v8 powered production car based on many things in the LF-FC - the fuel cell, hydrogen tanks and motors + 5L V8 and 10 speed transmission.
     
    #14 austingreen, Jan 13, 2016
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    the up side is that Chademo in the EU (due to the Kia Soul) can now charge at 100kW's !!! Moreover, Tesla sells a Chademo adapter for their cars - effectively increasing the # of high power DC chargers by about (iirc) a factor of 3.
    .
     
    #15 hill, Jan 13, 2016
  16. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Actually, Tesla has about 1500 charging stalls in the US. So about double.
    Regardless, I'm looking forward to the completion heating up between Nissan, GM and Tesla. And, if I am within a few miles of one of the designated areas in California, the Mirai :whistle:
     
    #16 Zythryn, Jan 13, 2016
  17. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Having Chademo stations in the area is one thing. Having functional Chademo stations is another. If you need a charge at a Nissan dealer you're plugging in the J1772.
     
    #17 JimN, Jan 14, 2016
  18. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    My Leaf charging experience at DC chargers at Nissan Dealerships is...mixed. Great in cool temps, but inconsistent above 90 F. Yes it does get that hot here in the Willamette Valley! The Nissan branded DC Chargepoints hate the hot weather and not being shaded. A simple awning would make a world of difference. But my pesimisstic side says dealers don't care and would rather sell u a gasser and leave the fueling to Exxon...

    Funny thing... no cooling for the Leaf pack, no cooling for the charging station. 2 strikes and yer behind in the count.

    And it says something that i still love my Leaf over my beloved Prius of 10 years that I left behind. No going to gas stations and plugging in at home. THAT is where Toyota WILL lose with hydrogen for passenger cars. Many people i talk with about the Leaf cannot believe i haven't visited a gas station in over a year.
     
    #18 finman, Jan 14, 2016
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what do they think you're going to get there, electrons?o_O
     
    #19 bisco, Jan 14, 2016
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  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    251 Tesla supercharging stations. I would count those, not the plugs. There are 1591 plugs.
    Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator

    This older data has 982 chademo locations with 1303 plugs in the US.

    Some of those are also combo plug. Combo plug has 416 locations with 630 plugs.
    By the end of this year a tesla with a chademo adapter will have excellent coast to coast coverage in the US with 1277 planned stations. This is much lower than gasoline, but a fairly full map when you don't need to fill up during your daily drives, only road trips. I would think 10,000 would be needed for the country, which means 12.8% there for tesla before the model 3 is released.
     
    #20 austingreen, Jan 14, 2016
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