Estimated EV range degradation

how are you measuring ev range? not the dash gauge, i hope.

mine may have degraded a maximum of 10%, but it's very difficult to measure, especially without a series of repeatable tests being done when new.

 

your confused about something, have you been reading andy's posts?

 

Where do you live? I'm measuring efficiency on a Spreadsheet also. So far I don't notice any degradation and I'm 25% EV.

 

Why wouldn't you pull the battery cables every day to get maximum range?

 

Is there some sort of mod where we can get 15-20 miles EV by denser batteries for the PiP? Can I turn it into a 5 seater Prime?

 

this is what andy does.

 

Radio presets? Yet another chore to do in addition to plugging in?

Long term, this may not be good for the traction battery.
As a hybrid, the pack has a buffer of unused, um, charge space to ensure battery longevity for the emission warranties. The ECU will go into the buffer somewhat to preserve EV range, but it will aim more for longer life.

By resetting the ECU everyday, it starts fresh and assumes the traction pack is new. So it provides the SOC range for full EV operation before it learns its mistake. Constantly tricking the ECU into going deeper into the buffer will lead to shorter battery life.

 

I'd be shocked if there was any actually measurable battery degradation.

You may want to have the dealer check on the health of the batteries.
Or, your driving patterns may simply require more energy, thus giving you a lower range.
The car is "learning" your driving habits and adjusting the range estimate accordingly.

At least, that would be my guess.

 

I think Trollbait, Bisco, and I agree that pulling the battery does not work because using the MFD to tell you EV distance is not precise.

The three things you are doing may do nothing or give you worse EV distance.

1. Batteries don't like the cold. This is one of the reasons why BEVs have shorter range in the winter. The batteries get hot while charging. Don't worry, there's a fan. You should set a timer to have the charge finish right before you need it so the batteries are still warm and you get optimum range. Waiting an hour forces the battery to operate while cold for the first few minutes decreasing range.

2. Waiting an hour after use to charge does absolutely nothing. If the battery is too hot, there's a fan. If the battery is really really hot then you should use AC while driving so it doesn't get that hot.

3. Leaving the car running for 2 minutes for fans to shut off uses up the battery. Using the battery decreases its life. As said above, if temps get thatvhigh, use AC. Otherwise, you make things worse.

And finally, everything I've read so far on this forum says a PiP will have some 10% decrease in battery capacity over 4 years expressed in kWh.

 

i think troll bait thinks it might cause the car to use more of the battery than planned, giving extra miles, but i'm not sure if this is an assumption based on other vehicles or toyota knowledge.

 

More about battery degradation of the PiP can be found in:

Electric battery degradation | Page 6 | PriusChat

 

I think this is the correct answer. If the car gives a projected range, it will be just like the distance to empty estimate for the fuel tank. Based upon past driving patterns. Resetting the ECU wipe that data out from memory, leaving it using some default info to go off of.

Resetting the computer constantly can result in burning more gas. The ECU is likely programmed with the emission/fuel economy test blend for the default fuel maps. Gas station fuel is not test blend. ECU learns the best combustion parameters to use with the local gas for best efficiency and performance over time. That learned data is likely wiped when the battery is disconnected.

It was an assumption based upon would I knew of ECUs 'learning' and that being saved. Mods to increase power might do so at first on a modern car, but without a tune to reprogram the ECU, that ECU soon learns to adjust things with the mod on to get the engine back to factory spec.

But I had not considered Zythryn's, more likely, answer.

In regards to the battery being hot, Toyota has good history in hybrid battery management. If the battery was too hot for whatever reason, the PiP likely would simply not charge the pack until the temperature dropped. Plug in makers aren't using dumb chargers in their cars. Considering the chore that plugging in is, they want to make the charging process as painless as possible for the owner.

 

3 years of driving the same commute, I didn't notice any change at all. The 4th year has been from a different house, one a little bit further away along a very hilly route. Still, no change. MPG is roughly the same as it has been since day 1. I've been tracking tank results on paper too, using spreadsheets to manually document gallons, kWh, and miles rather than just using the screen values.

I always wait a minimum of 90 minutes after EV drives before recharging, to allow the battery-pack to cold soak. I'll drive EV immediately after recharging.

I also discovered that firing up the engine right away in the winter (here in Minnesota) yields higher MPG overall for my 19-mile commute (each way). The reduced demand on the battery-pack in the meantime allows it to warm. The result is an improvement in electrical resistance, which is lowered due to the extreme cold. That provides a nice MPG bump.

 

I'm going to do more rigorous tests...But it seems like being active on the HV/EV button really helps. IE, when you only need to "glide" and push EV a little, use EV (especially under 60 mph). Hills, etc, use EV - otherwise engine kicks on though it's not kicked on inefficiently.

 

Were those the posts about PWR mode giving more EV range?

 

no, i was referring to removing the neg cable to reset the system, which changes the icon to 13+ miles, but does not increase actual range, unless you buy troll baits theory.

 

Yup, that echoes my experience. I have a 2012, and I've beaten the heck out of the battery, on a hilly, high-speed, 9-mile commute that drains it in 20 minutes, 5 days a week, both directions. So, my range has gone from about 9 miles to about 7.6 in 4 years. i can no longer complete it on EV. The only other thing that's changed is that I replaced the OEM tires with Michelins, but i keep them at 40+ PSI.