Suit says '13-mile' range for Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid was deceptive

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by devprius, Jul 29, 2016.

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  1. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    What does the phrase "Your Mileage May Vary" mean?

    But here's the problem: If you're taking a five to seven mile trip, and if the engine starts up for even an instant, IT WON'T SHUT OFF!! And you can't shut it off. And your trip mileage will be about 23 mpg.

    "We're such smart Toyota engineers, and we know what's best for you, so we're going to run the engine just to warm it up, whether it needs to or not, and there's nothing you can do about it." <-- Grrr!!! Jerks!!!

    So, yeah, sue away, sue their eyeballs out until they fix their software.
     
    #21 Rebound, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    What's the guy asking for his "defective" PiP with 20-ft3 cargo space?
     
    #22 wjtracy, Jul 31, 2016
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    See link by fotomoto above and continue discussion there.
     
    #23 Tideland Prius, Jul 31, 2016
  4. bfd

    bfd Plug-In Perpetuator

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    How low will it go? I've barely cracked 10 miles estimated, and less than that in reality. In some situations this summer, I've barely gotten 8 EV miles (real miles) before it pops over into hybrid mode. Pretty sure this is only going to get worse, but that's not the crux of the lawsuit. I'd join if it went class-action.
     
    #24 bfd, Aug 1, 2016
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can shut the ice down by powering off and then on again.
     
    #25 bisco, Aug 1, 2016
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my pip has been everything i expected. 6 miles ev, and 11 miles total ev miles with engine, i can beat that every time. maybe there are some defective ones.
     
    #26 bisco, Aug 1, 2016
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  7. N.J.PRIUS

    N.J.PRIUS Member

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    What is the saying: The only people that make money in a class action lawsuit is the lawyers.
     
    #27 N.J.PRIUS, Aug 2, 2016
  8. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    You do know that is for emissions, right? Not a defect. But for our breathable air.

    and your engineering credentials include??

    got to burn a little gas to make an ICE run cleaner. warm up is still important in the Prius world. Go ahead tell me your previous gas-only cars smelled great during the 1st two minutes.
     
    #28 finman, Aug 2, 2016
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    :sick:
     
    #29 bisco, Aug 2, 2016
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  10. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    But if I'm only driving 5-10 miles, I just burned gas for no reason.
     
    #30 Rebound, Aug 2, 2016
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you should get a pip, 5-10 miles all ev, no engine.(y)
     
    #31 bisco, Aug 2, 2016
  12. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    It's possible you bought the wrong car. You want no gas? that's an EV. Hybrids burn gas. I would love a Prius that is an EV only. But Toyota lost that sale to my Leaf. And our PiP burns gas. Just less than most anything out there!
     
    #32 finman, Aug 2, 2016
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  13. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    If I buy a car with a 13 mile all-electric range, I should be able to drive 5 to 7 miles without gas, right?
     
    #33 Rebound, Aug 2, 2016
  14. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    no, read the owners manual... or heck, even the window sticker. Your Mileage May Vary. Not everyone's driving patterns/environments are the same.

    You want heat? Well, that comes from combustion in a Prius. In my Leaf, it comes from a electric heat pump. Just one example. gas versus electric.

    You want to get 0-60 MPH in 10 seconds? The Prius uses combustion and electrons to get you there. My Leaf uses just the latter. Just another example.

    Engineering is all about tradeoffs. Especially in a car! Want to be fast? Bigger engine. Want to be frugal? smaller engine. Simple examples, but it makes my point...i think.

    Want cleaner emissions? Can't have a cold engine, burn some gas to get to the cleaner cycle.

    Most of these issues are not issues in an EV.
     
    #34 finman, Aug 2, 2016
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pip only has 6 miles ev.
     
    #35 bisco, Aug 2, 2016
  16. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    PiP might only be rated for 6 miles EV, but there are plenty of people on this board who get way more than that.

    A typical tank of gas for me is about ~400 miles and is about 50 MPG. 24 to 30 miles of that is EV, and the rest is HV. Those |400 miles are 4 round-trips to work, which is about 96 miles, the rest is running around at lunch, errands, etc. I can only charge at home. So, 24 to 30 miles / 4 charges = 6 to 7.5 miles of pure EV driving per charge. Which is inline with what the sticker says. I could improve that figure if I started manually switching in/out of EV mode and preserving as much EV charge for when it's more appropriate (relatively flat roads, modest acceleration, keeping it under 62 MPH). Which I used to do when I first got the car and was able to get higher EV miles.

    But then I made a realization. I'm gonna burn gas no matter on my commute. Might as well let the car decide when and where to use a particular energy source and how to blend them as needed. It's a lot smarter than me. I'd rather worry about getting to work in a timely and safe manner than to obsess about whether I was in EV or HV mode.
     
    #36 devprius, Aug 2, 2016
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I think you've touched on the difference between what the engineers at Toyota wanted and what the public expected.

    Because of the Volt, the public expected all PHEVs to function like an EV until the battery runs out then it becomes a hybrid. In the case of the Volt, it's a series-hybrid where the engine is the generator to charge the battery which then powers the electric motors and drives the wheel.

    In Toyota's engineers' world, they were targeting maximum efficiency when creating their PHEV. What they came up with for the PiP is the most efficient way to use gas and electric. Like you said in paragraph 2, just let the car decide when and where to use will help. Of course a human is smarter than the computer so you can still choose to hold charge until later and that sort of thing.

    The problem is that the market didn't want that. They wanted an EV driving experience like the Volt. That is more inefficient since the whole point of a Prius is to use the gas engine when IT is most efficient and use the battery when it is most INefficient to use the engine.

    But as any PiP owner knows, once you start the engine, the engine warm up cycle starts and there goes your EV driving experience. There's also the small part of the EPA driving test that dictates AER.



    So for the Prime, they've bit their tongue and did what the consumer wanted even though it's against the philosophy of Prius to be the most efficient it can be. However, the engineers were kind enough to offer us BOTH experiences. (Thank you!!). You can drive in EV mode like the Volt and use the 22 miles (which it can now achieve in the EPA tests because it locks out the engine). OR you can drive in EV AUTO mode which makes the Prime act like the PiP and alternate between gas and electric to get the most fuel efficient drive. I think this is a good compromise between consumer experience (you want that to be positive) and the engineers' goal of pushing the envelope for fuel efficiency.
     
    #37 Tideland Prius, Aug 2, 2016
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  18. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    Riiiight.... but here's the thing: If I want to drive, say 5 miles, if I tap the accelerator just a tiny bit hard from a stoplight, the engine starts and it pretty much won't shut off until I arrive at my destination.
     
    #38 Rebound, Aug 2, 2016
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm sorry, what's your point?

    you definitely got a lemon.
     
    #39 bisco, Aug 2, 2016
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  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    What? You OWN a PiP! You know that's how it works.
     
    #40 Tideland Prius, Aug 2, 2016
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