new (believe it or not) info about Oil Changes

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by john1701a, Oct 13, 2006.

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  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The fact that I had exceeded 60,000 miles with my HSD Prius (the engine warranty expired) and that I had previously owned a Classic Prius made the decision to lengthen the oil change interval was pretty easy, especially using synthetic.

    The Classic had been 7,500 miles. I was always impressed by how easy it was on the oil. True, the HSD has a redline that's 500 RPM faster. But with that larger electric motor, the engine doesn't get worked as hard anyway. So, I thought what the heck. After all, other countries go longer than the 5,000 standard. And it is likely Toyota conformed to that in part just to simplify maintenance schedules.

    Anywho, I just did the change this evening. The condition of the oil was most definitely in better shape (darkness and thickness) than the garbage that typically comes out of a non-hybrid. So I was quite pleased and see no reason not to continue this way.

    - - - - - - -

    As for the method of change, I have always lifted up the engine side of the vehicle... with a jack from just behind the front tire. Quite a number of people have pointed out doing that tips the oil pan just enough to prevent complete drainage. I wasn't concerned, knowing how easy the hybrid system was on oil. But I had always been curious about how much that actually was. So today, I measured.

    There was precisely 2 ounces left behind. The owner recommended fill amount is 3.5 quarts. That converts to 112 ounces. So the calculation works out to less than 2 percent, a somewhat trivial amount as assumed. I don't think many people will care. And if they do, just lowering the Prius before putting the plugging the pan is all it take to drain those 2 ounces. Not a big deal, though harder to reach if you don't jack back up afterward.
     
    #1 john1701a, Oct 13, 2006
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    John, for much the same reasons I plan to got to every 10k mile changes after the 60k mark too. See no reason to do it sooner as several people have done oil analysis at 10k with almost no abnormalities shown.
     
    #2 efusco, Oct 13, 2006
  3. silentak1

    silentak1 Since 2005

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    Yeah I do the 10k interval and sometimes even 15k (if i've done mostly highway driving). Everything comes out fine, no metal shilling or anything strange.
     
    #3 silentak1, Oct 14, 2006
  4. Rick Grahn

    Rick Grahn New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(silentak1 @ Oct 14 2006, 04:04 AM) [snapback]332659[/snapback]</div>
    I have 52000 miles on my '05 now and change oil every 5000 miles. I do about 95% highway driving. When I get to 60000 I plan to extend that to 10000 miles. Here I thought I was going to be the only one to do that. I was going to post this intent earlier but thought I would get blasted by others on the forum.
     
    #4 Rick Grahn, Oct 14, 2006
  5. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    10000 miles on mobil1 is great. When the maintainance ligh burns steady, cancel it and then pay attention to it the second time around.

    Don't worry about getting blasted around here. I've been blasted for using neutral, putting in gas beyond the first click off, driving for 100 miles on a flashing gas guage bar, and a few other things. It's the price we pay to be able to talk to the rest of the great people around here.
     
    #5 Ray Moore, Oct 14, 2006
  6. BobZ

    BobZ New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore @ Oct 14 2006, 08:26 AM) [snapback]332668[/snapback]</div>
    While we're on the subject of oil...I'm at 3500 and am ready with my Mobil 1 anf toyo filter. My question is there a oil light reset? My friend said his Maint. Reqd. light flashed at 5k which indicated an oil change was due. Is this true and if so how does it get reset?
     
    #6 BobZ, Oct 14, 2006
  7. stanleyjohn

    stanleyjohn New Member

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    I was just wondering <_< .Since the ice does not run all the time!anyone ever figure out how many real miles were used by the ice vs the electric.Is this why 5k is considered normal change time?I reality maybe the ice was running for 3000miles.
     
    #7 stanleyjohn, Oct 14, 2006
  8. rudiger

    rudiger Active Member

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    Since BMW performs the maintenance under warranty, the Oil Change Interval (OCI) with Mobil 1 on all their cars is 15k miles. I suspect that if Toyota were paying for the oil changes on the Prius, the OCI with Mobil 1 would magically be lengthened from every 5k miles to a similiar duration.

    IOW, it seems that when the manufacturer is paying for the oil changes, the interval is dramatically longer than when the customer is paying...
     
    #8 rudiger, Oct 14, 2006
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BobZ @ Oct 14 2006, 07:34 AM) [snapback]332673[/snapback]</div>
    4500 mile after the last reset the maint. req. light will come on briefly with a single beep when you start the car. At 5k miles after the last reset it will come on and stay on until you reset.

    Usually the place that fills your oil will reset the maint. req. light for you. If they don't know how (likely depending upon where you have it done), or forget, or you change your own oil you can reset it yourself by making sure the ODO is set to ODO (not trip A or trip B), power down, then hold down the ODO button on the dash while you power up. continue to hold the button down until you see the ODO display 'fill up' then show the actual Odometer reading.
     
    #9 efusco, Oct 14, 2006
  10. Cheap!

    Cheap! New Member

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    BobZ, Yes the light will come on and there is an easy way to shut it off. Just do a search for "Maintenance Required light" and the instructions are there. Also, If you order now you can have a fumoto oil drain valve in time to install it at your next oil change. Don't get one if you don't plan to keep the car, or if you don't plan to do your own oil changes.

    I change mine at 5k intervals. I'm excitedly waiting for my next oil change so I can use my installed drain valve for the first time. That, along with using a 1 liter bottle to wrap around and catch my filter when I remove it, should make for a very clean oil change. I won't even need tools. B)
     
    #10 Cheap!, Oct 14, 2006
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ Oct 14 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]332737[/snapback]</div>
    It was a similar situation w/ the 1st gen Prius as Toyota covered the routine maintainence for the first 3/36k on it and thus the oil changes were every 7500 miles. Despite a better HSD that would, presumably, put even less wear on the ICE it dropped to q5k miles with the 2G Prius.

    I want to say that it's interesting the logic used here. Those who are driving mostly highway are saying that they feel safe doing every 10k mile changes BECAUSE of their predominant highway driving. The irony here is that with predominantly highway driving the ICE is running essentially the whole time you're on the road. Albeit it's not tough start/stop wear like we see in city driving with a conventional car, it's still more wear and tear than a Prius being driving in the City where the ICE runs much less often. Also, remember that it is spun up to 1000rpm before ignition, thus the usual start-up penalty/damage doesn't occur.

    In my usual commute, in the summer, CAN-View shows my ICE on time at b/w 30-40%...it's going to be closer to 60%, I think, in the winter based on my first cold day drive yesterday. Still, over 10k miles of my typical driving the ICE is running, under compression, only about 5000 miles of that.

    There've been several discussions on this and other boards stating that it really make sense that Toyota integrate a Hobbs type calculator that tells you to change the oil every 100 hours (or whatever their research says is best) of ICE on time. Thus highway drivers would change more often than city drivers (based upon miles traveled), but it would make more sense with the HSD system. Another poster once suggested a built in oil analyser to determine when the oil needed changing...but I suspect we'd see a lot of cars going 20k miles+ if that were done!
     
    #11 efusco, Oct 14, 2006
  12. BobZ

    BobZ New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Oct 14 2006, 12:27 PM) [snapback]332740[/snapback]</div>
    Well I work for Cadillac so I think I'll do the oil changes myself. No drain plugs thank you. If I've gotta pick the car up anyway one screw of a drain plug isn't gonna kill me. For the record Cad calls for 7500 one Mobil one.

    Doc thanks for the info.
     
    #12 BobZ, Oct 14, 2006
  13. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    the oil change interval is something that has been controlled by the oil industry for a long long time. also, my sister is the service manager for Lincoln-Mercury and service is where most dealerships makes most of their profit. the cost of oil put in your car is practically nothing because they do oil exchanges. the old oil is refiltered and recycled.

    the only thing that is really necessary is changing the oil filter. the oil will easily last 20,000 miles, the oil filter has other issues that has to do with environment more than the type of engine used.
     
    #13 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 18, 2006
  14. ScottY

    ScottY New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 14 2006, 12:30 PM) [snapback]332741[/snapback]</div>
    That's why I asked if the %ICE ON is time base or mileage base reading in the CAN-View thread. If the reading is mileage base, we can calculate what's the exact mileage put on the ICE. Since this reading is time base, we can't do that calculation.
     
    #14 ScottY, Oct 18, 2006
  15. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Scott that is a valid arguement but there are other ways to look at it too. i read somewhere that says an average 11% of our time in average city driving is spent idling at lights. we can definitely deduct that right off the top
     
    #15 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 18, 2006
  16. Sho-Bud

    Sho-Bud Member

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    On this side of the pond, the Prius only needs an oil change every 15000 km, acording to Toyota :blink:
     
    #16 Sho-Bud, Oct 18, 2006
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sho-Bud @ Oct 18 2006, 02:58 PM) [snapback]334754[/snapback]</div>
    I thought it's 16,000kms.


    Honestly, if the Prius had those Oil Life meter, we probably won't be needing a change til 24,000 or even 32,000kms lol.
     
    #17 Tideland Prius, Oct 18, 2006
  18. rudiger

    rudiger Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Oct 18 2006, 12:46 PM) [snapback]334529[/snapback]</div>
    It's not just the oil industry alone. It's the oil industry in collusion with the auto industry. By the manufacturers keeping the Oil Change Interval (OCI) recommendation as short as possible, the oil industry benefits by more oil being bought, and the automotive service departments benefit by charging exhorbitant prices for frequent, unnecessary oil changes. On top of that, if the OCI isn't followed as directed and a warranty claim is filed for any sort of engine failure, it gives the manufacturer leverage to deny the warranty claim.

    A win-win situation for everyone (except the consumer, of course).

    What's distressing is that, at one time (decades ago), the manufacturer's short OCI was actually accurate due to the wide engine manufacturing tolerances allowed, as well as the less refined chemical composition of oil. The auto manufacturers just 'forgot' to update their recommendations as engine tolerances and oil technology improved.
     
    #18 rudiger, Oct 20, 2006
  19. Etel Rose

    Etel Rose New Member

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    Is there any *problem* with doing it earlier? I have a free oil change for this car that expires mid-November (given by the dealer) - I'll be nowhere near the first 5K miles (the dealer might figure that for the average person, since it will only be about 3 months old). But if I do it in November, then I figure I can wait for another 5k after that.

    There was another poster on here who implied that with a newer car it was important to change the oil a lot at first (sooner than Toyota recommends) - it sounds like no one particularly agrees.
     
    #19 Etel Rose, Oct 20, 2006
  20. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    no problems with doing it early. some recommend that the first oil change on a new engine be done on a short interval due to the break-in of the engine.

    i dont really believe in this theory anymore. i believe modern manufacturing techniques have improved enough to make this a non issue
     
    #20 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 20, 2006
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