TC/Slip dash ON after curb bang (new hub/wheel/ties/univ joint)... what am I missing?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by MrPete, Feb 18, 2023.

  1. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Slid on black ice and whacked a curb bad enough to blow the R Front tire and bend the wheel.
    Have replaced lots of parts...

    Visible symptom: the Slip / Traction Control dash lamp is on 100% of the time (and was immediately after the accident.)

    I don't have a TechStream. Do have OBDlink LX and Torque Pro.
    * No visible codes
    * Wheel speed on all four wheels seems ok
    * Pulled 12v battery, and also cleared codes "just in case." Didn't help.

    I vaguely remember seeing a reference to some kind of ABS recalibration requirement after replacing a hub??

    Any hints or pointers MUCH appreciated.

    (One caution, perhaps emeliorated by the fact that the FR wheel speed is reading correctly: I have proof that I was sold a counterfeit Koyo Hub/Bearing. Is there some hidden factor that might make that be the source of this issue? I have a good (Moog) one arriving monday...) I'll talk about the counterfeit issue in another thread. Right now, I wanna get rid of this dash light!
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    And I'm going to guess the wiring to the given sensor of the side that was compromised is in good shape and has no visible signs of any funny business from that sensor to its plug on up to the car? I just had to ask. And I'm guessing when you assemble this new bearing into the new hub you can see the speed ring that the sensor needs to access in order to make a read on the ring?
     
  4. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    YES. Not only that, but the per-wheel speeds are all reading OK and are identical as expected.
     
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yes you can't fool that That's right I remember reading that now in your post at all the wheel speed readings were spot on that is quite strange.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The car will feel unloved if you don't ask it why the slip light is on.
     
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  7. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    :)

    I obviously have not been listening well. Time to order a Tactrix OpenPort 2! In the meantime, the pin 4 - pin 13 OBD "trick" spilled a lot of pent-up messaging....

    SLIP/TC: 43, 45, 66
    ABS: 41, 42
    TPMS: 75
    BRAKE: 36, 94

    Skimming other posts, this mostly tells me it wants the recalibration procedure I was hunting for... and now have found. @ChapmanF you provided that here: Brake, ABS, and traction lights | PriusChat
    • Similar to pin 4-13 diagnostic, but this is pin 4-12 (to "TS") while off (and brake off, and level), turn car on (two presses w/o brake, NOT ready)... and a bunch of processes take place while the ((!)) brake light blinks about every second...
    Unfortunately, nothing happened. :(
     
    #7 MrPete, Feb 20, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    SLIP/TC 43 just means you should look at the ABS code too, and 45 just means you should look at the brake code too.

    ABS 42 just means you should look at the brake code too.

    Brake 36 just means you should look at the ABS code too.

    :)

    So we've got SLIP/TC 66 (C1290, steering angle zero point seems weird), ABS 41 (C1241, low voltage arrived at the brake hardware), and BRAKE 94 (U0073, hey I'm having trouble talking to the yaw sensor or the steering angle sensor).

    Also, there was TPMS 75 (C2175, problem with either the vehicle speed signal or the RSSI signal).

    None of that pertains to anything right out at the hubs, where you might be thinking after a curb bang. Maybe the bang was hard enough to jostle some electrical connection supplying the brake ECU (it's on the master cylinder).

    Because the C1241 means the brake system is getting low voltage (or at least got low voltage, at some point), that's worth looking into. Inadaquate power could explain communication signals getting messed up. It's simplest to start with the aux battery voltage itself, though it's possible for C1241 to be not about that, but about some wiring or connection bringing the voltage to the brake hardware. With a scan tool, you could get the C1241 freeze frame, with an INF code giving more details of what happened, and actual voltage readings from that instant.

    The vehicle speed signal is generated by the brake ECU, so if the brake ECU is unhappy, that can explain the signal not showing up at the TPMS ECU.

    The yaw/acceleration sensor and the steering angle sensor are both used by the traction control. The yaw/acceleration sensor is under the center console and the steering angle sensor is just below the steering wheel on the steering column shaft.

    There's a procedure for learning the yaw/acceleration zero point. You make sure the car is parked somewhere with no forward/back or side-to-side tilt, and you say "ok that's zero" and the car says "ok got it".

    There's no separate procedure to learn a steering angle zero point. Every time you drive, the car looks at what the steering angle sensor is saying when you're driving with no yaw and no wheel speed differences and says "ok, that'd have to be zero steering angle". But it sets C1290 if the value is too far off to believe. That could mean the yaw zero point is mislearned, or the steering wheel wasn't put on centered, or the front alignment is messed up. (Or it might result from being unable to talk to the yaw sensor or steering angle sensor.)

    That's because it didn't actually want that procedure.

    That can happen if you rely on something I posted six years ago but don't skim down the same thread to see if I corrected myself five years later.

    The only code that actually means it wants that procedure (C1345, linear solenoid offset learning undone) would be 66 on the brake light. You didn't have that code. You did have 66 on a different light, but that's a different code.

    In that earlier post where I mentioned seeing ABS 42 and TRAC 45 when that procedure was wanted, that was before we fully understood that ABS 42 and TRAC 45 just mean "hey look at the code flashing on your brake light", and of course they would be on then because C1345 flashes out 66 on the brake light. But the only code that really told a story was that one, and you haven't got it.
     
    #8 ChapmanF, Feb 20, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  9. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Helpful, thanks!

    I see there's a procedure for clearing all of these codes using the TC line as well. I'm thinking:
    • Check voltages to ensure all is well now
    • Then clear the codes (connect TC-CG (13-4)), turn on (not ready), hit brake 8+ time in under 3 sec)
    • See what comes back
    I also found a similar procedure to clear and redo the yaw rate sensor:
    • Set parking brake, steering centered, car level (within 1 degree)
    • Clear: turn on (not ready), Connect TS-CG (12-4) 4+ times in 8 sec, disconnect TS-CG, off
    • Calibrate: connect TS-CG (12-4), car on (not ready), wait 5+ seconds
      • Slip indicator should go on for several seconds, then blink rapidly
      • if it doesn't, go back to "Clear" again
      • car off, disconnect TS-CG, drive forward straight at 25+mph for 10+ seconds
    One lesson learned in all of this: running on a spare tire for a while is sure to set some codes that aren't visible to a simple OBD2 reader, nor cleared by typical (Torque etc) Android software...
     
    #9 MrPete, Feb 20, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Some OBD-II readers are simpler than others. We do have a Gen 2-specific thread that compares a bunch of them and reports which ones can see more of the codes in a Prius:

    Gen2 OBD2 app review | PriusChat

    So far, it seems nobody has sent mr_guy_mann a Gen 3 to test on for a similar review. But the ones that worked well in the Gen 2 thread are probably good bets.
     
  11. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    HOORAY! I just learned a few important things... some of this may be helpful for others.

    1) The OBD2 App Review fails to mention the power of the OBDLink LX + OBDLink App on one important function, as illustrated by my new experience:

    • I already own the OBDLink LX, and have been using it with Torque Pro
    • Haven't been using the OBDLink app. Decided to try it
    • Paid $15 for the "Enhanced functions" for my 2011 Gen 3 Prius
    • After doing a full app reset... I made huge progress
    2) OBDLink LX with OBDLink app and Enhanced functions showed me all of the codes I didn't see in Torque Pro:

    • (ChapmanF nicely translated my blink codes to: C1241, C1290, U0073 and TPMS C2175)
    • OBDLink showed the same codes. TPMS code is separately read by connecting to the TPMS.
    • It has a different interpretation of C1241 (Low or High P/S voltage)
    3) OBDLink also allowed one-button clearing of all of the codes.
    • So I did...
    • They stayed clear. 100% of the codes were historical!
    4) AND... clearing the codes solved everything.
    • TC light is OUT.
    • Brake-hill-lock works again (4 sec brake if press hard while stopped), etc
    • And the car now drives "normal" (it felt a little like a boat?!!)
    WHEW. No TechStream or OpenPort 2 needed, at least for this.

    Now I just need to install the new hub that supposedly is on a FedEx truck right now... and I'll be ready for the drive to Hybrid PitStop to replace the engine :-D
     
    #11 MrPete, Feb 20, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, the fortune cookies listed for trouble codes in different documents (or built into scan tools) sometimes look a little different, and they are never a complete source for what the code means. The one actually in the (2010 edition) repair manual says "Low Battery Positive Voltage", but of course the full description for that code and its detection conditions clarify that the voltage is being measured at the brake hardware, not at the battery, and one of the five possible INF codes refers to a voltage too high rather than too low.

    And Gen 2 also had a C1241 code for its (electrically rather different) brake system, and the fortune cookie might have been a little different, and an app like OBDLink might not have all those variations programmed in.

    I focused on the voltage-too-low possibility, given the number of times (zero) I've seen anybody's C1241 turn out to be because the voltage was too high.

    There's a better source than me for all that information anyway:

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat :)
     
  13. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Maybe not, although they do have a different download for each model year. Who knows ;)

    Thanks again for helping me move through this particular adventure!
     
  14. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    BTW, more on the OBDLink app:
    • If you tell it to connect to the TPMS ECU...
    • It absolutely CAN read all TPMS values
      • Temperatures
      • Pressures
      • Min pressure
      • etc