Intermittent P3190?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by BuckleSpring, Sep 25, 2023.

  1. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    Hey all, I have a 2005 w/ just under 200k mi.

    Within the past ~18 months, I've taken the battery out a couple of times, refurbed it properly the second time (after just swapping a cell the first time to get me by), and the car has been flawless for about the past 9 months. Only thing I've noticed is that it runs... a little rough on cold startup at idle, and sometimes possibly smells... rich(?) when standing behind the car when it's idling.

    Here's the problem: About a month ago, I was driving home, and got hit with the red triangle, lost all throttle response (engine felt like it was running I think), was able to pull to the side of the road, scan for codes, reset codes, cycle power, drove home, happened again w/ the same codes just as I was pulling into my driveway.
    Codes were:
    1. P0171- System too lean (Bank 1)
    2. P0420- Downstream O2 sensor, ignore this one, it's been on for the entire time I've owned the car
    3. P2195- Bank 1 Sensor 1 Too Lean
    4. P3190- Poor Engine Power
    After doing some reading on the forum, it looked pretty common to happen with a dirty MAF sensor... So I cleaned it, wiped off the top of the throttle body blade with what little access I had. Car seemed to act fine, I drove around with it for about an hour w/ techstream open reading live data in the passenger seat, and noticed nothing strange going on. Car has been fine since then up until last night. Fuel economy has slowly been decreasing over the past month or so as well I noticed, although I just chalked that up to an old HV battery that's degrading (went from averaging ~46.5 to ~41.5).

    Last night, car did the same thing. Red triangle, no throttle response, pulled out my phone, scanned for and erased codes, drove home. Was very late and in the middle of nowhere, so I cleared the codes without really looking at it, so I don't have a full list of what codes it threw, but there was definitely a P3190 in the list.

    Any other probable causes or things to check that would cause a P3190? I feel like the initial P0171 and P2195 are linked, but my upstream O2 has always read right in the normal range. I'd hate to just fire the parts cannon at it.
     
  2. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    So I cleaned it, wiped off the top of the throttle body blade

    Did you clean the dark brown bulb that's visible when you look down the throttle body (which is the temperature sensor) or did you clean the MAF element which requires removing the plastic sensor housing from the throttle body?

    Also, it would benefit you to clean the walls of the TB, above and below the plate. I typically use a small tooth brush to scrub it while holding the plate wide open. TB spay can be used to soak the tooth brush and wash it down as you're cleaning. After a good cleaning, it would be best to cycle 12v power to reset the car ecus to factory default.
     
  3. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    I physically removed the MAF and cleaned it, just went back out and checked it and it's still clean as a whistle. Good thought on the toothbrush idea for the throttle body, I was wondering if there was any good way to clean it without just removing it. I'll give it a more thorough clean. Only thing that gives me pause though is that it was fine for a month, and seems to be fine again today after a reset (driven it about 15ish miles this morning to see if I could get it to replicate the issue)
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    So you are saying that you cleaned the heated element down inside the plastic housing, which is hidden from view?
    After using the spray cleaner, I continued getting random P0171 codes, so I ended up needing to clean it a bit better than just using spray. Had to wet a q-tip and gently rub the element down inside the hole to remove the grime. Must be very careful though. Never had another 0171 code after that.

    A lesson I learned back in 2019:
    P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1) | PriusChat
     
  5. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    Yep, fully removed the maf, cleaned it as good as I could. Looking at the live data from the last drive I did, it seems to be reading normally so....?
     
  6. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    As an update:
    • I'm currently pulling out the MAF/airbox assembly again to get another look at it and try cleaning it again.
    • I'm also cleaning the throttle body thoroughly while I have the airbox off, can definitely see a tiny bit of oil pooling in the bottom of the intake. Looks like about a tablespoon or two at most?
    • Decided since I'm already in here, may as well remove the PCV valve, it still rattles, but there's definitely quite a good bit of carbon/oil deposit on it so I'm dunking it in my ultrasonic for a bit.
    • Looking at some other threads, possible failing/clogged/etc VVT Solenoid can possibly cause a P3190? Looking at some other threads about the Actuator, some people have noticed a bit of a knocking sound on cold startup w/ no misfire codes that goes away after a few seconds if their VVT actuator is clogged. So I'm pulling that out and giving it a clean while I'm in here anyway
    EDIT: Car is all back together. I used a vacuum and some shop towels to clean up any oil pooling in the intake. PCV Valve, Throttle Body/blade, MAF sensor, and VVT solenoid are all thoroughly cleaned. Car does seem to start and run smoother than usual? We'll see if P3190 comes back
     
    #6 BuckleSpring, Sep 26, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2023
  7. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    Car seems to be starting and running a lot smoother than it has in recent memory. Transition between EV and ICE operation seems to be a lot smoother than usual. P3190 and other associated codes haven't returned yet either, will update if they do. MPG is still low, noticed the 12v was kinda low though, so I'm pulling it out to charge overnight to see if it makes a difference
     
  8. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    What do you see for Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trim data while the ICE is running - warmed up? Ideally, both should stay fairly close to 0 +/- 10%. Check at idle, fast idle, and steady throttle cruise.

    Rattle on cold start is usually the VVT actuator (intake cam sprocket) not locking - then it smacks back & forth until the engine & VVT build oil pressure. A stuck VVT solenoid will set codes and sometimes cause rough idle or idle stall (because cam timing isn't where the ECM expects).

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  9. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    Here are some screenshots I was able to grab while I was out earlier. These were all taken w/ the car up to temp. Was only able to get one screenshot w/ the car idling without adding throttle input because even with the heater cranked to max it's still too warm to get it to keep the ICE on 100% of the time (and I couldn't remember the pedal dance for maintenance mode at the time)
    1.png 2.png 3.png 4.png 5.png 6.png 7.png

    As for the VVT knocking sound, putting the solenoid through the ultrasonic cleaner seems to have fixed or at least greatly reduced it from what it was. Cold start/idle is way smoother, ICE engagement seems smoother, engine start seems more immediate, etc
     
  10. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Member

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    Car has been driving pretty well for the past couple of weeks. No more P3190 or ICE failing to start.
    However P0171 and P2195 still seem to return at random. MAF and throttle body have been very thoroughly cleaned, intake was cleaned, new air filter, cleaned the PCV valve, etc. If it's not the MAF, which i don't think it is considering i super cleaned it and my P3190 hasn't returned, I'm not sure what else could be causing it. Vacuum line to the PCV looks fine, no obvious cracks in the intake boot, idle quality seems fine (which is where i think a vacuum leak would be most noticeable if that is what it is). Upstream O2 sensor data is in the post above this one, but at this point it's either got to be that or a failing fuel pump right?